Question from a newbie

2737 Views 19 Replies 7 Participants Last post by Chinahand, Nov 16, 2008

bigdutch

Discussion Starter · Nov 12, 2008

2

I just finished my starting layout and to get some experience I like to upgrade my track with electric motor points.

Can somebody tell me if there is a step by step (idiots guide)

that explains the install?
Which motor points shall I use Peco , Hornby, Tortoise etc?
What wiring do I use?

My track is a DCC layout with two trains and normal Hornby Settracks.

I have search the forums but there is so much info that I am totally confused.

Thanks for your help

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Brian Considine

· #2 · Nov 12, 2008

One of the first things you will need to make your mind up about will be if you wish to control the points through the DCC setup or conventionally.

The Tortoise (and other slow action motors) are far superior (IMHO) than solenoid action types such as the Peco & Hornby. However, they do need more work & if you are happy with the Hornby points then you may be better off using the Hornby motors.

bigdutch

Discussion Starter · #3 · Nov 12, 2008

QUOTE (Brian Considine @ 12 Nov 2008, 14:36) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>One of the first things you will need to make your mind up about will be if you wish to control the points through the DCC setup or conventionally.

The Tortoise (and other slow action motors) are far superior (IMHO) than solenoid action types such as the Peco & Hornby. However, they do need more work & if you are happy with the Hornby points then you may be better off using the Hornby motors.

Thanks for your answer. Which best alternative can I use if I don't want to use Hornby motors but other slow action motors?

Chinahand

· #4 · Nov 12, 2008

Hi Bigdutch and welcome to the MRF.

The question of which point motors to use is one that pops up regularly and there is, unfortunately, no definitive answer.

I must, however, agree with Brian when he says that slow action motors such as Tortoise are superior to the traditional solenoid type of motors both in their reliability and their prototypical speed of movement. Such superiority does, however, come at a price. Tortoise motors cost about £12 each whereas solenoid motors are about a fiver.

Personally I use the Seep PM1 point motors which cost about a fiver each and include the facility to change frog polarity. With Peco you buy the point motor and the polarity change unit separately which costs more.

Hope this helps.

bigdutch

Discussion Starter · #5 · Nov 12, 2008

QUOTE (Expat @ 12 Nov 2008, 15:41) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi Bigdutch and welcome to the MRF.

The question of which point motors to use is one that pops up regularly and there is, unfortunately, no definitive answer.

I must, however, agree with Brian when he says that slow action motors such as Tortoise are superior to the traditional solenoid type of motors both in their reliability and their prototypical speed of movement. Such superiority does, however, come at a price. Tortoise motors cost about £12 each whereas solenoid motors are about a fiver.

Personally I use the Seep PM1 point motors which cost about a fiver each and include the facility to change frog polarity. With Peco you buy the point motor and the polarity change unit separately which costs more.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Expat,

Do you know somewhere where I can find a guide that tell s me how to install and what I need to use motor points and switch them conventially with a switch?

Thanks

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Chinahand

· #6 · Nov 12, 2008

2

Hi Bigdutch.

I'm attaching 2 wiring diagrams for the Seep PM1.

The first is for a simple 'stud & probe' type of control and the second is for a more ambitious (& more expensive) switched point control system using Masterswitches from Richard Johnson at DCC Concepts and bi-colour LED route indicators. Both are for a DCC system.

Rectangle Slope Font Parallel Diagram

Rectangle Slope Font Parallel Schematic

The latter diagram also shows the modifications which are necessary to electrofrog points to isolate the frog and control its polarity.

Is this the sort of thing you are looking for ???

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Doug

· #7 · Nov 12, 2008

There have been topics on this site that talk about various options. Use the search function and look around.

Search on 'Tillig', 'Conrad', 'Fulgerex' or Tortoise.

I use Tillig point motors that are controlled with switches. They cost 12,14 Euros (£9.91) from Lokshop.de. They can switch signals and control panel indicator lights too if you like. See my Blog for info.

bigdutch

Discussion Starter · #8 · Nov 12, 2008

QUOTE (Expat @ 12 Nov 2008, 16:17) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi Bigdutch.

I'm attaching 2 wiring diagrams for the Seep PM1.

The first is for a simple 'stud & probe' type of control and the second is for a more ambitious (& more expensive) switched point control system using Masterswitches from Richard Johnson at DCC Concepts and bi-colour LED route indicators. Both are for a DCC system.

View attachment 911 View attachment 912

The latter diagram also shows the modifications which are necessary to electrofrog points to isolate the frog and control its polarity.

Is this the sort of thing you are looking for ???

Expat

Thanks , tHis is just what I am looking for.

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eddscott

· #9 · Nov 12, 2008 (Edited by Moderator)

I'm new too and I used the diagram Expat provided. I've used PM1 motors with Masterswitch V2s. This seemed the most straight forward way.

This may help a bit too.

http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index...ic=6006&hl=

Lancashire Fusilier

· #10 · Nov 12, 2008 (Edited by Moderator)

If you wish to find out a little more about tortoise (which I wholly recommend and use myself for points and semaphore signals) then check this link circuitron. Also, don't be put off by prices either. You can buy a 6 pack of Totoises from the US and have them delivered for cheaper than purchasing locally.

Chinahand

· #11 · Nov 13, 2008

QUOTE (Lancashire Fusilier @ 13 Nov 2008, 03:49) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Also, don't be put off by prices either. You can buy a 6 pack of Totoises from the US and have them delivered for cheaper than purchasing locally.

It all depends on how many points you have on your layout. If you only have 5 or 6 then the price differential is not so painful. If, like me on the other hand, you have over 30 points in your layout it becomes a factor to be considered.

The cheapest I've seen Tortoise motors is £10 each compared to Seep PM1s at £4.60. i.e £300 plays £138. I just can't justify the additional cost.

At the end of the day though you get what you pay for.

You pays your money and you takes your pick.

34C

· #12 · Nov 13, 2008

QUOTE (Expat @ 13 Nov 2008, 00:09) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>It all depends on how many points you have on your layout. If you only have 5 or 6 then the price differential is not so painful. If, like me on the other hand, you have over 30 points in your layout it becomes a factor to be considered.

The cheapest I've seen Tortoise motors is £10 each compared to Seep PM1s at £4.60. i.e £300 plays £138. I just can't justify the additional cost.

At the end of the day though you get what you pay for.

You pays your money and you takes your pick.
That's why I went Fulgurex. This slow motion motor is double ended, which makes it a piece of cake to operate a pair of points in crossover formation. Until the recent financial events it was possible to get this motor for £8 - £9. When spread over two points it is cheaper than solenoids, and it comes with robust (and easily expanded) switching built in.

Brian Considine

· #13 · Nov 13, 2008

QUOTE (Expat @ 12 Nov 2008, 15:41) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Tortoise motors cost about £12 each whereas solenoid motors are about a fiver.

The Fulgurex & Lemarco type are about £8.50 each, but they do have two reliable changover switches built in - compare that the the total price of a Peco motor, mounting plate & switches & you will find that the slow action are more cost effective.

Chinahand

· #14 · Nov 13, 2008

QUOTE (Brian Considine @ 13 Nov 2008, 15:32) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>compare that the the total price of a Peco motor, mounting plate & switches & you will find that the slow action are more cost effective.

Aaaah but compare it to the price of a Seep PM1 and it is not so cost effective.

Brian Considine

· #15 · Nov 13, 2008

QUOTE (Expat @ 13 Nov 2008, 12:58) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Aaaah but compare it to the price of a Seep PM1 and it is not so cost effective.

But we are not comparing apples with apples are we ?

The Seep PM1 only has one set of auxilery contacts (& AFAIK no way to easily attach more), no end off switching & no mounting plate either.

Chinahand

· #16 · Nov 13, 2008

You don't need a mounting plate for the Seep. It already has screw holes for fixing in position and, AFAIK it is possible to run more than one device off the auxilliary contacts.

I acknowledge that slow action motors are better but, for those who are perhaps embarking on their first layout or for those with budgetary constraints, I still believe that the Seep PM1s are the best value for money around.

bigdutch

Discussion Starter · #17 · Nov 14, 2008

I just have one more question and maybe it is a stupid one

, but can I power the points straight from the track or do I need an additional powerr suplly and if so what do you recommend. I need to power about 6 points.

Thanks

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Chinahand

· #18 · Nov 14, 2008

Sorry to disappoint you Bigdutch but you will need a separate 16 v DC power supply for the point motors. You will also need a Capacitor Discharge Unit (CDU) to boost the power to the point motors. Here's a little diagram showing how Seep PM1s can be wired though there are several other alternative ways of doing it.

Rectangle Slope Font Line Parallel

If you are going for the slow action type of points you will not need the CDU.

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bigdutch

Discussion Starter · #19 · Nov 15, 2008

Thanks Expat

At the moment I have no Electrofrogs but just the normal Hornby points, can you please tell me how to wire those as I am not very good with electrics.

Thanks

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Chinahand

· #20 · Nov 16, 2008

Hi Bigdutch,

You may not like what I'm going to say but you will find that slow running over points will be far more reliable if you get some electrofrog points.

My advice is to ditch the Hornby points.

Sorry

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