I found this on the BBC, thought it might interest some:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7474951.stm
Ben
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7474951.stm
Ben
Railway Golden Age
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I read that in the papers last week - problem is, on many routes there is no rail capacity left.
The areas in the UK where the problem is the largest are also the most diffecult to extend ;
longer trains - no land to extend the platforms either way in many cases.
double deck trains - too much change required to infrastructure.
If the "powers that be" are serious about getting more people out of their cars & into the trains then they had better consider serious investment & be prepared for a serious amount of nimby'ism to quash.
The areas in the UK where the problem is the largest are also the most diffecult to extend ;
longer trains - no land to extend the platforms either way in many cases.
double deck trains - too much change required to infrastructure.
If the "powers that be" are serious about getting more people out of their cars & into the trains then they had better consider serious investment & be prepared for a serious amount of nimby'ism to quash.
I agree entirely
QUOTE (Brian Considine @ 27 Jun 2008, 10:13) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>If the "powers that be" are serious about getting more people out of their cars & into the trains then they had better consider serious investment & be prepared for a serious amount of nimby'ism to quash.
I live very near the Southerly bottleneck of the ECML, the twin track Welwyn viaduct and tunnels. This section needs to be doubled with some urgency, the obvious method being to have the current twin tracks on the viaduct and through the tunnels as the slow lines serving Welwyn North station; and taking the fast lines above the existing viaduct, and straight over the top of the low hills which the current tracks tunnel through. (There is plenty of room between Welwyn Garden City and Knebworth stations with very few obstructions, and the gradients required are very modest for electric traction.) But this is seen as politically untenable, and the most recent proposals consequently were for another pair of (expensive) tunnels...
I live very near the Southerly bottleneck of the ECML, the twin track Welwyn viaduct and tunnels. This section needs to be doubled with some urgency, the obvious method being to have the current twin tracks on the viaduct and through the tunnels as the slow lines serving Welwyn North station; and taking the fast lines above the existing viaduct, and straight over the top of the low hills which the current tracks tunnel through. (There is plenty of room between Welwyn Garden City and Knebworth stations with very few obstructions, and the gradients required are very modest for electric traction.) But this is seen as politically untenable, and the most recent proposals consequently were for another pair of (expensive) tunnels...
I think the problem of capacity is caused more by the attitude of the operators themselves.
In the South, the infrastructure is sound. I live in a small town which has massive platforms built in the days when steam trains pulled a train with a minimum of eight carriages.
Now it is only four.
Coming down from London, you will actually sometimes get an EIGHT - but this is only because they need the carriages in Bognor or Littlehampton.
They solve the problem of small platforms by announcing that you need the front four carriages for Portsmouth (as the train divides) or because of the short platform at Barnham.
I travelled from Brighton to Eastbourne for the tennis, and the train (if you can call it that) is TWO coaches. It is the Brighton to Ashford International. The coaches were packed solid until Eastbourne because of the tennis fans. They could not even be bothered to put on extra coaches for the week.
In the early fifties, I was a R.A.F. apprentice based in South Wales. It was like school, and we had long holidays as in school terms. We all went home for these holidays the same day. The obvious choice was by train, and London was the main destination to spread out throughout the U.K.
Were were taken by lorry to Cardiff station where six coaches were at a platform, and on we all piled - kitbags and all.
Meanwhile, at another platform the engine and another six coaches were loading 'civilians'.
Just before the appointed departure time, the 'civilian' portion would chug out of the platform and then reverse onto our coaches, connect up, and off we would go.
Could you see that happening to-day?
If you see the pictures of the steam trains before, during, and after the war, there was always a minimum of eight coaches, but more often twelve.
And how about in the war, when I understand some trains had up to 24 coaches.
It appears that the main problem is a shortage of coaches, and the ability and willingness of the operators to put the money in.
In the South, the infrastructure is sound. I live in a small town which has massive platforms built in the days when steam trains pulled a train with a minimum of eight carriages.
Now it is only four.
Coming down from London, you will actually sometimes get an EIGHT - but this is only because they need the carriages in Bognor or Littlehampton.
They solve the problem of small platforms by announcing that you need the front four carriages for Portsmouth (as the train divides) or because of the short platform at Barnham.
I travelled from Brighton to Eastbourne for the tennis, and the train (if you can call it that) is TWO coaches. It is the Brighton to Ashford International. The coaches were packed solid until Eastbourne because of the tennis fans. They could not even be bothered to put on extra coaches for the week.
In the early fifties, I was a R.A.F. apprentice based in South Wales. It was like school, and we had long holidays as in school terms. We all went home for these holidays the same day. The obvious choice was by train, and London was the main destination to spread out throughout the U.K.
Were were taken by lorry to Cardiff station where six coaches were at a platform, and on we all piled - kitbags and all.
Meanwhile, at another platform the engine and another six coaches were loading 'civilians'.
Just before the appointed departure time, the 'civilian' portion would chug out of the platform and then reverse onto our coaches, connect up, and off we would go.
Could you see that happening to-day?
If you see the pictures of the steam trains before, during, and after the war, there was always a minimum of eight coaches, but more often twelve.
And how about in the war, when I understand some trains had up to 24 coaches.
It appears that the main problem is a shortage of coaches, and the ability and willingness of the operators to put the money in.
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QUOTE (alanb @ 27 Jun 2008, 16:07) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Could you see that happening to-day?
Not really, because people would not want to wait !
Not really, because people would not want to wait !
Wait for what Brian.
I think you missed the point.
Great Western Railway where thinking about their passengers comfort.
If you had just boarded a train that was then invaded by 100 or so lads in full uniform plus kitbags and backpacks, I am sure you would not have been happy.
Normal passengers boarded the train as usual at their platform, and we boarded our half. The train left on time with all aboard very happy, and more importantly, everyone had a seat.
Alan B
I think you missed the point.
Great Western Railway where thinking about their passengers comfort.
If you had just boarded a train that was then invaded by 100 or so lads in full uniform plus kitbags and backpacks, I am sure you would not have been happy.
Normal passengers boarded the train as usual at their platform, and we boarded our half. The train left on time with all aboard very happy, and more importantly, everyone had a seat.
Alan B
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13,704 Posts
QUOTE (alanb @ 27 Jun 2008, 18:42) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Wait for what Brian.
Wait for anything - people are always in far too much a hurry thesedays.
All the old Railway Companies were from the days when life in general was far more leisurely.
Wait for anything - people are always in far too much a hurry thesedays.
All the old Railway Companies were from the days when life in general was far more leisurely.
Sorry Brian, it was me who missed the point.
You are quite right about people being in too much of a hurry these days.
SWMBO was standing by me when I read your note. She remarked 'YES, aren't we'
She meant me. I am the worlds worst for being impatient, especially in supermarket queues, and stuck in traffic. I will go miles extra to avoid any jams.
And yet I grew up in London during and after the war, so I should be a relaxed person.
Going back to trains, I think operators should also add extra coaches to 'school trains'. I made a mistake recently when I took one of my trips by train to Gaugemaster at Ford earlier than usual. The doors opened, and hoards of schoolkids poured onto the train, all carying large backpacks, and proceeded to fill every available seat, and then the aisle.
It was mayhem. I pity the people who have to do it every day.
Mind you, travelling by train in our area can have its exciting moments for the unwary, especially the elderly who are hard of hearing and cannot understand PA announcements.
I boarded a train at Ford which said it was the Portsmouth train on the indicator boards on the platform. I got on the end of the train because my station exit is at the end of the platform. We have modern electric trains with running indicator boards telling you where the train is going, and where the next stop is etc. even tells you what coach number you are in.
The indicator said Portsmouth Harbour, so I settled back to enjoy what I had bought.
When the train stopped at Barnham, we were sat there for a bit, when the train bumped a little. I looked at the board, and it was still running 'Portsmouth'.
The guard got into our coach, and fiddled around in his litttle box by the door. Suddenly, my eye was drawn to the indicator board and lo and behold it was saying 'London Victoria'.
I just managed to leap up and shout at the guard, who opened the door and shouted up the platform to the other guard on the other half of the train. (I thought it was an unusually long train coming into Ford.). Thankfully the guard held the train whilst this poor old geriatic tried to run up the platform. I did make it.
You are quite right about people being in too much of a hurry these days.
SWMBO was standing by me when I read your note. She remarked 'YES, aren't we'
She meant me. I am the worlds worst for being impatient, especially in supermarket queues, and stuck in traffic. I will go miles extra to avoid any jams.
And yet I grew up in London during and after the war, so I should be a relaxed person.
Going back to trains, I think operators should also add extra coaches to 'school trains'. I made a mistake recently when I took one of my trips by train to Gaugemaster at Ford earlier than usual. The doors opened, and hoards of schoolkids poured onto the train, all carying large backpacks, and proceeded to fill every available seat, and then the aisle.
It was mayhem. I pity the people who have to do it every day.
Mind you, travelling by train in our area can have its exciting moments for the unwary, especially the elderly who are hard of hearing and cannot understand PA announcements.
I boarded a train at Ford which said it was the Portsmouth train on the indicator boards on the platform. I got on the end of the train because my station exit is at the end of the platform. We have modern electric trains with running indicator boards telling you where the train is going, and where the next stop is etc. even tells you what coach number you are in.
The indicator said Portsmouth Harbour, so I settled back to enjoy what I had bought.
When the train stopped at Barnham, we were sat there for a bit, when the train bumped a little. I looked at the board, and it was still running 'Portsmouth'.
The guard got into our coach, and fiddled around in his litttle box by the door. Suddenly, my eye was drawn to the indicator board and lo and behold it was saying 'London Victoria'.
I just managed to leap up and shout at the guard, who opened the door and shouted up the platform to the other guard on the other half of the train. (I thought it was an unusually long train coming into Ford.). Thankfully the guard held the train whilst this poor old geriatic tried to run up the platform. I did make it.
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675 Posts
QUOTE (alanb @ 27 Jun 2008, 16:07) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I think the problem of capacity is caused more by the attitude of the operators themselves.
I travelled from Brighton to Eastbourne for the tennis, and the train (if you can call it that) is TWO coaches. It is the Brighton to Ashford International. The coaches were packed solid until Eastbourne because of the tennis fans. They could not even be bothered to put on extra coaches for the week.
Operators do seem short-sighted. A few months ago I went to Glasgow to see singer Jill Scott which coincided with a Scotland international football match. At Queen Street for the return to Edinburgh, no extra coaches on the train and they disallowed passengers (or is that customers?) from entering the station. We queued for a couple of hours to get on a very packed train still leaving hundreds of boozed-up Scottish football fans in the queue behind us.
First Scotrail knew that the match was on and that fans like a beer or two before, during and after the game will not drive, so why not extra coaches or even extra trains?
Bananas!
I travelled from Brighton to Eastbourne for the tennis, and the train (if you can call it that) is TWO coaches. It is the Brighton to Ashford International. The coaches were packed solid until Eastbourne because of the tennis fans. They could not even be bothered to put on extra coaches for the week.
Operators do seem short-sighted. A few months ago I went to Glasgow to see singer Jill Scott which coincided with a Scotland international football match. At Queen Street for the return to Edinburgh, no extra coaches on the train and they disallowed passengers (or is that customers?) from entering the station. We queued for a couple of hours to get on a very packed train still leaving hundreds of boozed-up Scottish football fans in the queue behind us.
First Scotrail knew that the match was on and that fans like a beer or two before, during and after the game will not drive, so why not extra coaches or even extra trains?
Bananas!
The bus service here has one bus at 7a.m and one at 7p.m. BUT, as that is the only line, they end up with two buses going down at THE SAME TIME! When they could have one midday and have just as many passengers-customers.
Ben
Ben
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