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In depth idiot
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Perhaps not totally unexpected, given the number of commissions they have executed and underway. There's to be a Rapido UK office and so direct presence in the UK. This information
came out on a recent US podcast, with little further detail, other than having a UK diesel model in development and expected to be announced early 2019.

What got my attention though was the statement that having completed some UK commissions, they now felt it was time to get some credit under their own brand name. Now that
was interesting, because in all the commissions I was aware of Rapido got easily equal billing with the commissioning parties (NRM, RoS, MR). Sooooo... There have been three fairly
recent diesel releases of 'better than anything equivalent previously seen in RTR OO' standard. Could it be that one or more of these were actually commissioned from Rapido?

Whatever the case, on the basis of now owning an example of Rapido's work in the form of the Stirling single, I feel this is all very good news.
 

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QUOTE (34C @ 6 Sep 2018, 11:37) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>... Sooooo... There have been three fairly
recent diesel releases of 'better than anything equivalent previously seen in RTR OO' standard. Could it be that one or more of these were actually commissioned from Rapido?

Interesting thought
 

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Hi Folks Rapido entering the UK RTR market would certainly be good news if they could maintain the standard set by the Stirling Single
but sadly their next product commissioned by Rails does not get anywhere near the same level in spite of the Super-elevated price.

Serious livery errors combined with numerous detail errors and omissions certainly do not justify the £125 being asked. GA drawings
and the full size preserved example together with many photographs and published documentation give all the necessary information to
make the model as accurate as they claim. Unfortunately they seem to have received some advice without checking if they asked the right
question and without closely examining the drawings in conjunction with what can be observed on the prototype.

Magazine reviews are falling over themselves to award top marks, it would seem, without making any attempt to check the facts that are
available on the internet and on the LNER Encyclopedia Forum. It is a very pretty model but then so is Hornby's Thomas the tank engine !!
 

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What do I put here&#33;?&#33;
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QUOTE (Adrian Swain @ 7 Oct 2018, 09:19) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Magazine reviews are falling over themselves to award top marks, it would seem, without making any attempt to check the facts that are
available on the internet and on the LNER Encyclopedia Forum. It is a very pretty model but then so is Hornby's Thomas the tank engine !!
Hello Adrian,
Of course, the magazines are falling over themselves to give anything by such a commissioner, a 'stunning' review! When the commissioner in question has such a hold over their advertising revenue, what can you expect?

However, if Rapido themselves produce a new diesel entirely in-house, I would be quite confident that Jason, Bill, Gareth and company would go to great lengths to ensure it is correct. Fingers tightly crossed for a new 'Peak'.
Cheers,
John.
 

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Hi Folks, Allegheny1000 is absolutely correct about magazine reviews, many are seriously misleading and must be skating on thin ice, like
the manufacturers, when it comes to trading standards requirements regarding making true statements about the quality of a product.
Perhaps it is time to stop using the term "review" and call the comments " Additional views and prototype information " and certainly drop
the "Score sheet" which has become meaningless in many cases as of late.

...I was very surprised at how many mistakes have been made on the DC, especially in view of the existence of so much information
being freely available. It only took me two or three emails to the right person to obtain a GA and a series of "Up-skirt" and "on top"
pictures which were all that was needed to check on suspected errors. I did not even have to go to York to do my research, my suspicions
having been aroused when I realised that the massive leaf spring that sits across the chassis, to measure the drawbar pull, was not shown
on the model. That led to other suspicions and on and on. Cost me nothing to find all that out apart from some time on my laptop, Any
competent reviewer could have done much the same but that is clearly not their brief.

….I would like to thank my source of information for his help although he will for the moment remain anonymous. He gained some
benefit as I was able to point out some of the pitfalls into which he will not now fall when he rebuilds and repaints his model.
 

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Horseman of the Apocalypse
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I'll just leave this here, from 27/06/17.

I've just received the latest newsletter from Canadian manufacturer Rapido Trains, a company which has a passionate attention to detail in their models, but fortunately don't take themselves too seriously. I hope they will not mind me quoting this excerpt from the newsletter, which I find fascinating in relation to some of the pseudo-serious contributions on this forum;

An Oasis of Calm in Our Crazy Lives;
"As Rapido has grown, we've become more exposed to what can only be described as customer fury. I'm not talking about customers upset that a Rapido model didn't work properly - that is totally understandable and we try very hard to take care of customer warranty requests as quickly as possible. Sometimes it takes longer than we would like, and of course we understand your frustration and we are most apologetic when that happens.

The customer fury I'm talking about is when people send us really nasty emails, phone calls or Facebook messages because we've done something that they seem to perceive as a model railroading crime, whether we've unfortunately had to delay or cancel a project or even when we just didn't announce the model they specifically wanted to see.

Model railroading is a hobby. It is supposed to be an escape for you to get away from the cares and concerns of real life and enjoy a precious moment or two in a miniature world of fantasy. Immersed in your model railroad for an evening, you can leave aside worries about your bills, about your kids, about your health and just enjoy the moment. Our real lives are so complicated and so full of anxiety. Allow your model railroad to be a respite from that.

You can be passionate about your hobby without letting it add to your anxieties. I have to be anxious about our hobby because I have ten people working for me here in North America and I need to make sure they all get paid on time so they can feed their families. Not to mention our team in China. If too many models get delayed or the sales don't materialize, I get closer to hitting the panic button. But you don't have to worry about all that. That is my headache, not yours.

If the hobby of model railroading is getting you so worked up that you feel the need to call our office and scream at us about our release schedule, then I can only say I am sorry. I hope that you one day are able to find solace and peace, if not in model railroading then in some other endeavour.

Next time you find yourself getting angry or frustrated with a model train manufacturer or some other aspect of model railroading, please take a step back and remember: this is a hobby; it is supposed to bring an oasis of calm to our crazy lives. If it is not achieving that aim, take a break from it. Maybe find something new for a while that can help bring you that moment of peace, and then come back to the hobby later. We want you as a customer, but your spiritual health is far more important."

Very perceptive!
SWFRS
 

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Hi Folks SirWilliam is right, it is very perceptive and I have not complained about late delivery, cancellation or the wrong prototype and
have waited until the whole batch is now sold so that Rapido should have no trouble paying their staff. Indeed at £125 per model I guess
the staff deserve quite a bonus. I have not bought a model so have not had to seek warranty work or refunds and therefore have no anxiety
about the model.

I am just simply pointing out to those who have been given rather exaggerated expectations of this model that unfortunately those
expectations have not been fulfilled. They may be quite happy with their purchase but perhaps they will make a more considered
judgement of the next model by Rapido as to whether they consider it justifies the price. Hornby have just released a Maunsell dining car,
indeed two completely different bodies and with a discounted price of under £40 it is less than one third the Rapido model. Having also done
a similar level of research into this I am satisfied it is of equal, indeed greater accuracy than the Dynamometer car. The liveries are correct
for both versions, unlike the LNER coach, since fortunately they accepted advice about the running number of one version. There will be
further variants to follow in due course in both cases and one might hope some corrections will be made to the Rapido model.
 

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Just another modeller
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*** I am not sure of the motivation or purpose of this thread.

Reviewers are simply modellers with writing experience. Editors are the same. POLICY of the magazine will rule the results. We should all be aware of that.

I too have seen a weakness in the loco in its choice of pin diameter for its 21 pin DCC connector (another thing not even thought about by the reviewers) but I simply posted that as a comment to inform, with the action needed to make it work better, because criticism without substance to validate it has no value.

--------------------------------

I think Rapido should be encouraged as traditional larger suppliers are massively under-achieving and under-delivering new projects all round at the moment to the detriment of the hobby and the industry as a whole.
If it was me, and the model was one I had the knowledge to comment on, I'd probably be sending them a helpful email. Something like:

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Dear Rapido

It's clear you really do care about what you create. Your XZY model is really nicely done in many areas but when I look at it, there are a couple of places where you probably were not supplied enough information.

I know that you have a well deserved reputation for going the extra mile to get it right, so in order to add to your knowledge here is what I have noticed: Perhaps it will give you a basis for later improvement.

* the underframe as you have made is correct for version x, but your numbering is for version y unfortunately. It should be 1234 to 1256 in your chosen version
* The gizmo under the whatsits was actually like this. (drawing attached)
* Your chosen variant should have this whatsits positioned just behing the drawbar (see this photo)
* Next comment with supporting reference
* Next comment with supporting reference

I am hapy to discuss any oof these issues if you wish. Please keep the new UK prototype models coming!

Kind regards, xxx

-------------------------------

Anyway - from my point of view:

* The UK needs a new, quality supplier to chellenge the establishment and lead to, hopefully, even more improvement.
* Rapido should be encouraged
* We should not underestimate the long term risk of constant criticism without commensurate support - Those who create our models are only human.
* We also should not dismiss the positives that may come from supportive activity. The more we inform, the better they will become.

And... we really should keep the hobby positive.

regards, Richard
 

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In depth idiot
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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
The thread was intended to be about this:
(34C @ 6 Sep 2018, 12:37) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>... on the basis of now owning an example of Rapido's work in the form of the Stirling single, I feel this is all very good news.
Now, I don't expect perfection in this world, and the Stirling single isn't perfect. But what it is without doubt is the finest RTR steam model I have bought,
and more UK subject models in OO of similar quality will be welcomed chez moi.

Rapido have indicated that a UK diesel loco is under development, for announcement in the new year. Given that every significant class now has at least
one RTR model the subject possibilities seem rather limited. Either a prototype or a shunting type yet to get a RTR model, or much as the Dapol 52, SLW
24 and Hattons 66, a significantly better model of a class with a weak or flawed model at present. There's quite a selection available, Hornby's Brush 2
and Bach's EE type 5 would head my list as respectively 'woefully inaccurate' and 'somewhat flabby', leaving room for significantly better models.

Rather interested to see what it will be. Whatever the choice pretty confident that it will be well received.

(34C @ 6 Sep 2018, 12:37) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>...What got my attention though was the statement that having completed some UK commissions, they now felt it was time to get some credit under their
own brand name. Now that was interesting, because in all the commissions I was aware of Rapido got easily equal billing with the commissioning parties (NRM, RoS, MR). Sooooo... There have been three fairly recent diesel releases of 'better than anything equivalent previously seen in RTR OO' standard.
Could it be that one or more of these were actually commissioned from Rapido?...
While probably not news for industry insiders, I see that it is now being acknowledged that Realtrack's product was commissioned from Rapido.
 

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Hi Folks In reply to Richard Johnson I would point out that I have on many occasions contacted manufacturers including Rapido or have been approached for assistance but in the
case of all but Hornby, none of the big RTR manufacturers have taken heed of my points. Either they have simply ignored my comments or basically implied the model was correct
and I was wrong. This is a very different attitude to the smaller specialist businesses who are almost invariably very willing to accept help.

One point I would like to make is that the proliferation of new RTR manufacturers may well seem like a good thing to many but it is having a very adverse effect on the existing
companies whose continued existence is clearly on a knife edge. Hornby have seen sales volumes drop by over 50% in the last 5 years and this slide is yet to be halted.
Bachmann UK are having very extended lead times for new models and not announcing much other than livery variants. The commissioned models like Rapido's Stirling and
Dynamometer car etc etc are exclusive to one outlet and for local model shops to survive, so must the likes of Hornby and Bachmann. Currently it seems like half the new products
coming on stream are exclusive to a few large outlets and they are mostly "Once it's gone it's gone"

Of course the current "Big boys" are under delivering, the market for OO is shrinking and the smaller cake is being eaten by an ever increasing number of hungry competitors.
This makes it difficult for the "big boys" to invest in new models which is why they are underachieving. Something dramatic will have to happen soon which may change the market
in a direction most modellers will not expect or appreciate. For example, most modellers would not know whether the Hornby 14xx is better or worse than the Hattons version but
Hornby must have suffered loss of sales as a result and the same applies to the Dean Goods, the Mk 3 coaches, the Adams Radial the class 71 electric etc, etc. Loss of volume
means loss of profit which means less to invest and smaller runs with higher prices.
 

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In depth idiot
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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
(Adrian Swain @ 8 Oct 2018, 12:21) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>...One point I would like to make is that the proliferation of new RTR manufacturers may well seem like a good thing to many but it is having a very adverse
effect on the existing companies whose continued existence is clearly on a knife edge...
Then again business is generally about being on a knife edge, for all except those happy few who currently own the 'money tree'. Possession of the money
tree doesn't last forever: once it was in the hands of the railways, and they got it by ruining the canal owners, and in turn the road vehicle industry grabbed
it. Where next we wonder for the land transport sector?

The disappearance of some 'name' businesses is to be expected in short. The nature of our particular sector is that the worthwhile tooling finds its way to
another owner, so little that is of value is permanently lost. The retailers that have gone into the production side are going to be the candidates for survival.
They are taking steps to ensure they have goods to sell. Better that than be in the group of less enterprising retailers who go to the wall because their main
suppliers on whom they were largely dependent faltered badly.

Personally, I will still be a railway modeller with not a single RTR commercial product available, because it is fun. Since there is a small band of like minded
people in the UK, a total end to RTR supply is unlikely. And roughly fifty years since I started purchasing model railway product myself, the sole company
remaining in business is Peco. None of the other model shops and RTR model makers I bought from back then are in business today. And the RTR product is
vastly superior so there is no downside to such change.
 

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Just as a matter of interest, does anyone know whether for commissioned models, the responsibility of getting the model right (or at least reasonably correct) tends to be with the organisation commissioning the model or with the manufacturer?
 

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In depth idiot
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The spec for the model rests with the commissioner, but is going to reflect the minimum standard that the contracted manufacturing party is willing to work
to. Without insight into the negotiation between the parties, that's about as precise as it is possible to be.

Bottom line for me is that the commissioning party is responsible for the end product, the manufacturer is following instructions. There's reputational risk in
this for the manufacturing party if they accept a commission to an inadequate standard, thus the manufacturer has an interest in ensuring that the item is
designed and produced to an adequate standard. But as always 'adequate' is capable of broad interpretation.
 

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Hi Folks I think the following statement from Rail's own advertising blurb gives a fair summation of what purchasers should have expected of this model :-

"Rapido Trains is famous for producing models that capture famous or unusual vehicles right down to the tiniest detail, and the LNER dynamometer car will be no exception.
Based on detailed research of the prototype, archive photographs and official drawings, the ‘Rails Limited’ model will feature exceptional interior and underframe detail, including
depictions of the recording equipment and the additional speed recording wheel between the bogies "

Mike Trice has started a comprehensive upgrade of the model starting with a very detailed description of how to dismantle it in the first instance. One comic on the same forum
topic has suggested he is planning to modify it to "Danny the Dynamometer car" to fit in with Annie and Clarabel for the Thomas the Tank Engine series. Sadly the reverse would
appear to be rather more in Mike's mind. He appears to be converting it from a "Thomas" series model into an accurate replica as promised by Rails. He has a long list of omissions
and errors and I wish him the best of luck in his endeavours. Lining the 1938 version after a major repaint may be the most challenging part of the work I imagine.
 

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Hi Folks Just shows where you can get with misleading advertising, magazine reviewers who do no checks on accuracy, and hoards of
modellers who are happy with whatever they receive. Not for the first time has a seriously inaccurate product won "Model of the Year" and
it is not helped by having an unauthentic museum restoration, although the incorrect detailing is entirely down to Rails/Rapido, since the NRM
exhibit is constructionally original in most respects. Whilst the award is often fully justified it is no guarantee of the quality of the winning item.
 

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Hi Folks Quote from Sir Willam :- " I suppose it makes a change from targeting Oxford Rail! " Or Dapol or Heljan or Accurascale or
Kernow or Hattons or Minerva or Bachmann or Hornby or anyone else that produces sub-standard RTR models without good reason.
 
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