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Hi folks,
Well as I am going on holiday for 3 weeks, I thought I would commit myself into building a new layout on my return. My last effort was a 9ft x 4ft point to point with continuous run, but the curves were too tight and lots of locos can't run properly on it. So it will be ripped up in the near future and a new continuous run 10ft x 5ft (or 10ft x 6ft if I can squeeze it in) will be built in my garage.

The new plan will be a purely fictitious station, MPD and goods yard somewhere on the North Wales Coast line.

This is an 8ft x 4ft version designed by S. Jay that I will slightly modify.


There are several reasons for choosing the North Wales location (even though you won't glimpse the sea on this layout!).
First I am a LMS man even though I was born in GWR country (Hereford)
There was a large amount of traffic on the line, freight and passenger, especially with summer holiday traffic. Crack expresses like the Irish Mail and small local trains, it's all there!
I can run just about everything the LMS used from small tank to pacific and still be prototypical (except perhaps for the Coronation Scot - I have no record of that - but it won't stop me!)
There was some interesting architecture to be seen on the line.
In BR days, some unusual visitors were seen including B1's and even the Gas Turbine GT3.

I have a large loco stock so I wanted to include a MPD, just to have a few on display and operational.
The design is interesting enough to operate three trains (2 passenger and one goods), with plenty of scope for exchange of engines and also some shunting.

So that is the plan. I will take this thread all the way from baseboard construction, to track laying, wiring (DC not DCC) and scenics (mainly urban).
I will try to salvage some stuff from my old layout but there will be a new LNWR station building, Bangor style footbridge and other interesting bits and pieces. Other bits, like Engine Shed and Signal Boxes, I have already prepared (see Ray's Building Site thread below).

That's all for the moment, will continue in May, all being well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
QUOTE (Capt Jango @ 6 Apr 2012, 12:09) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Ray , Know the North Wales lines well , used to stay there at weekends as a teenager . We could see the trains from the "bungalow" in the dunes . (Bungalow made from old Victorian carriages , complete with fittings from old passenger ships , and a proper cooking "range" , even had Victorian oil-lamps , All Bulldozed in the early 70's when the 99 yr lease ran out . Now a massive caravan park !
Nearly forgot - The line on your plan needs to be a twin track - I do have pics of Loco depots etc in the area if you want any

Graham

Thanks Graham.
I have 2 good books about the line plus a couple of others on LMS MPDs.

I will see if I can squeeze in a double track, but I could also do with a couple of storage loops. If I can make the width 6ft it will ease things a lot, including tight curves.
There will be a short "urban" tunnel to disguise the continuous run a bit and also a level crossing by the goods yard. The loco coaling area will also change slightly to allow a Bachmann LNWR type coal/water shed plus my ash plant.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Bangor, N. Wales has a distinctive twin tower footbridge. Towers incorporate lifts.

Unfortunately, I don't think I can change the turntable arrangement easily. May be able to remove the diesel shed and change the approach. Will have a think!

No sketch pads, unfortunately I have to study for Open University while away and write a 2000 word essay!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Looking again at the MPD, the extra length will alow me to make the turntable single line and remove all other outlets. Then take a feed off the r/h coal and water siding to an angled engine shed. Ditch the diesel shed and just have sectioned sidings.
Sound better??
 

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OK Guys.

I had a quick redraw based on suggestions.

REVISED PLAN (10ft x 6ft)



There are four double-slip crossings! (the X's)

Let me know what you think ! (No rush - you've got 3 weeks!)
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
QUOTE (spurno @ 6 Apr 2012, 19:25) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>nice plan Ray.good luck with your essay.what are you studying?
Hi Spurno. It's a history degree.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hi Jim, about 5 - 6 coaches I am hoping. Yes the gantry box will go at the top and the tall box by the station. Retaining walls at the top.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
QUOTE (Expat @ 7 Apr 2012, 00:57) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>That's better Ray but I would move the access road to the turntable to between the 2 sets of points in the MPD. It's a bit isolated where it is and makes the pointwork unnecessarily complex. I also see that you have a set of facing points to the right of the station which should be reversed.

I was thinking the same things myself Trevor! (Great minds and all that!)
The revision was just a quick "I wonder if it is possible" sketch without too much thought going into it.

I forgot to say the the extra width will allow an outer radius of about 2ft 10in and an inner one (at station) of about 2ft 6" which while not generous should suffice.

I may put a short siding lower left for station pilot loco.

Wish I could squeeze in at least one carriage siding that could take around 3-4 carriages (say 40"). The only way I see is to slightly shorten the main oval and put in a curved siding instead of the station pilot siding on the lower left.

Anyway that's it now for 3 weeks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Quick Revision - even managed the carriage siding!



 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Hi folks... Back from a lovely relaxing holiday.

Will be trying to add some storage loops to the design towards the end of the week.

In the meantime, for anyone interested, the station will be named BELMONT. The layout is loosely based upon Bangor (North Wales) and I used to live in Belmont Park in Bangor (Northern Ireland) !!!


Anyway I think it is generic enough to be a town!
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
I have been having a serious re-think about the new layout and am tempted to go for this plan by C.J. Freezer (plan 52 Fore Street in the PSL Book of Model Railway Track Plans)





Although the Loco facilities are more limited, it does have quite a long run with good operating potential and more importantly an operating well providing better access to all parts of the layout.

All comments welcome!
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
I agree with the comments about sizes. And the gradients will need careful measurement especially as the plan can cope with 5 or 6 coach trains! The goods and engine shed facilities are less than I would have liked but I have never found a perfect plan yet. Also the coaling facilities seems to scupper the Bachmann LNWR coaling stage i have bought ! (no spare siding for raised coal loading). I may sacrifice the upper goods yard for a different MPD.

Another bonus is that by setting the points you can have two continuous circuits around the lower station. Changing the points makes it and out and back - clever design!
 

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I have re-checked the gradients and the major problem is the station throat where the continuous runs go under the station. This needs a minimum of 3". I reckon I could make the continuous runs rise up slightly into the passing station by 0.5" but that would still mean a rise of 2.5" between the station and the tunnels. However since the continuous runs do not run directly under the station throat tracks, I may be able to start the gradient further along the station throat at the back of the signal cabin. This would mean a drop of 2.5" over 7ft (84") equating to about 1:33 gradient which while not great may just work.

The bottom return loop isn't so bad as there is a long run and it can be lowered easily to accommodate the tunnel under the intermediate station.

Hmmmm....
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
QUOTE (Robert Stokes @ 14 May 2012, 11:47) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Ray, don't forget that the main way to ease gradients is to have the upper line rising while lower one falls. This means each has half the gradient that would be needed if the lower one were level.

Robert

Hi Robert. Thanks. Unfortunately there isn't much leeway unless I don't make the passing station level and begin the gradient at the footbridge. However this would mean split level platforms as the outer lines would drop while the inner lines would rise !
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Have had another look. If I take the intermediate station as Datum (0") and level then I could drop the continuous run lines to -1 and raise the lines to the terminus to around +2.
The quadruple track under the terminus would be -1 and the return loop -4 to clear the continuous run.

So that would mean a minimum gradient of 1:36. Probably acceptable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
QUOTE (Expat @ 14 May 2012, 13:38) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>You could, of course, build it in N Gauge which would halve your gradients and double your track length in terms of scale miles.


Now why didn't I think of that !!!


OO rolling stock going cheap !!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Nicely done Trevor !

I am still pondering but have been working on LMS 10000 project today (separate thread) !
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Regrettably, I have decided to leave the forum, for reasons not appropriate to mention.

For anyone interested in this and other projects, I will continue to update my photobucket albums.

http://s1126.photobucket.com/albums/l603/rhiwderin_ray/

I wish the forum and its members continued success and thank the many people who have read my posts.
 

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Many thanks for the support shown by members. I will try to limit my posts to my own modelling for the foreseeable future.

Here is a plan I came across in the PSL Book of Model Railway Track Plans No. 60 Bruddersford. Size is approx 3m (10 ft) x 2.10m (7ft). It does offer better gradients but loses continuous running. Engine facilities are marginally better. I still would not be able to use my Bachmann LNWR/LMS coaling stage (raised track for coal wagons) unless modified. Also train lengths are quite restricted (about 4 carriages)

All comments welcome !!



Iain Rice's Plans for Urban Layouts is arriving soon, so that my also provide something!
 
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