Ready-made Semaphore Signals top poll

QUOTE I wonder at times if my strategy of spending as much on my layout infrastructure (track, signals, controller etc) as on the physical trains is out of synch with what is happening in the UK.

Not according to my thinking John

QUOTE the main differences seem to be in the way that the GWR designed and fitted brackets compared to the others

Apart from the small matter of GWR arms being lower quadrant while the more stuff on other regions had changed to upper?

David

The round steel post used by the GWR from the 1930s onwards was not much different from the tubular posts adopted by the other companies around the same time. Looking at photos, the main differences seem to be in the way that the GWR designed and fitted brackets compared to the others.

The lattice masts seem to have been used most in the highlands of Scotland and in a few other areas.

As David points out the GWR had lower quadrant and they did use tube, but it was not very similar to the LMS/BR type.
I think this is where the market will run into difficulties, Lattice post were quite widespread depending on what railway company built the original signalling. Think East Anglia, the GN main line from Kings Cross northbound, the LSWR used lattice posts as did the LMS. LNWR were often square post wooden and there were other company varieties too. Because of this variation to make an 'authentic' model signal would determine which company/region the signal would be used in. I think that those who would pay say £25 for a single arm starter, (using the mentioned viessman as a comparable price/quality indicator), would be the sort of modellers or enthusiast who would want the signal to be 'correct'. I don't mean exact fidelity, but to be a very good representation of the signal for that region/company.
For example a model of a GWR branch line with lattice post signals would be as wrong as a GN branch with GWR lower quadrant signals, and I think that those likely to pay for quality signals would likely recognise that anachronism.

If I'm right, that unfortunately potentially fragments the market and drives up costs further.

http://greengoscalerail.fotopic.net/p31919529.html
Heres an example. This is a simple LMS lattice post bracket signal. It is very different from an LNER version. Having built it, I do think that when you start to get this sort of structure, which were pretty common in the UK, good quality RTR signals are going to be a very expensive proposition altogether. Having said that I'd love to be proved wrong!

QUOTE David, the fact that the GWR & WR used lower quadrant signals compared to most using upper was so obvious to me I didn't think it worth mentioning; perhaps I should have done in the interests of clarity for others.

I brought it up in case some one saw a nice big band wagon rolling down the hill with one type of signal on it and said hey one signal will do all. Imagine the reviews if only one quadrant type came out. You never know who reads this stuff looking for product ideas.

David

QUOTE (dwb @ 7 May 2008, 17:54) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>...some one saw a nice big band wagon rolling down the hill with one type of signal on it...

What a wonderful thought Anyone make model band wagons?

QUOTE (dwb @ 7 May 2008, 17:54) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Imagine the reviews if only one quadrant type came out.

Yeah, wouldn't do to upset the G*R fans would it? Might even provoke an adverse review from the Modeller.

It is most interesting reading about what people would pay for a generic tubular post upper or lower quadrant starter signal.

I have commenced building my flock (collective term for multiple signals??) of some 50 odd signals based on the fine signal planning performed by one of our very own members here and I would have to say that having never soldered a kit before in my life I am incredibly pleased with results thus far and while the greater audience will no doubt wish to judge this for themselves I would suggest that the "average" modeller is perhaps scared of soldering (as indeed I was before taking the plunge) and thus believes it out of reach.

So far I have spent around 3 hours on the model with simply the lamp, lamp bracket, finial and operating wires to install before the entire metallic components are basically complete. I believe this will take about 1-2 hours tonight and allowing another hour for painting and glazing, bearing in mind I am actually making mine operate with light in the lamp adding a degree of difficulty. I believe the whole thing to probably end up taking about 6 hours in total. Now that is the first ever kit I have ever made. If I can't halve this time within the first dozen or so signals I make, using a little batch building where appropriate, I will be most surprised. I reckon with some basic preparation, ie batch cutting of tubes to lengths and various part removals from frets etc that a single starter could possible be made in as little as a couple of hours.

Where am I going with this?

Great question, however while I firmly believe then that this is all within the capabilities of many of the folk who frequent this forum, the cost therefore of having them made by other's shouldn't be too expensive. I reckon that they could be made on a case by case basis for a reasonable price and perhaps that price is 25-30 quid but for a hand made all metal constructed product is this really too much to pay? I couldn't justify it for 50 or so and besides I couldn't be happier than making them myself believe it or not (some folk actually admit to enjoying ballsting - so there!) however for a smaller layout with say no more than 6 or so signals it could be viable for someone to purchase them. As pointed out they would be superior to Hornby and Ratio without any doubt.

Maybe I should flog the first one on eBay to see what people are actually prepared to pay then and let's see what the market can actually support? I know some fantasy figure painters sell Citadel miniatures of warhammer types on eBay and command up to and exceeding 3 figures per item in some cases.

Hi There.
Maybe you could show us with pictures & a brief description what you have done. It might encourage others to have a go. I'm sure people would try it if they knew where to start.


QUOTE (Lancashire Fusilier @ 13 May 2008, 08:04) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>It is most interesting reading about what people would pay for a generic tubular post upper or lower quadrant starter signal.

I have commenced building my flock (collective term for multiple signals??) of some 50 odd signals based on the fine signal planning performed by one of our very own members here and I would have to say that having never soldered a kit before in my life I am incredibly pleased with results thus far and while the greater audience will no doubt wish to judge this for themselves I would suggest that the "average" modeller is perhaps scared of soldering (as indeed I was before taking the plunge) and thus believes it out of reach.

So far I have spent around 3 hours on the model with simply the lamp, lamp bracket, finial and operating wires to install before the entire metallic components are basically complete. I believe this will take about 1-2 hours tonight and allowing another hour for painting and glazing, bearing in mind I am actually making mine operate with light in the lamp adding a degree of difficulty. I believe the whole thing to probably end up taking about 6 hours in total. Now that is the first ever kit I have ever made. If I can't halve this time within the first dozen or so signals I make, using a little batch building where appropriate, I will be most surprised. I reckon with some basic preparation, ie batch cutting of tubes to lengths and various part removals from frets etc that a single starter could possible be made in as little as a couple of hours.

Where am I going with this?

Great question, however while I firmly believe then that this is all within the capabilities of many of the folk who frequent this forum, the cost therefore of having them made by other's shouldn't be too expensive. I reckon that they could be made on a case by case basis for a reasonable price and perhaps that price is 25-30 quid but for a hand made all metal constructed product is this really too much to pay? I couldn't justify it for 50 or so and besides I couldn't be happier than making them myself believe it or not (some folk actually admit to enjoying ballsting - so there!) however for a smaller layout with say no more than 6 or so signals it could be viable for someone to purchase them. As pointed out they would be superior to Hornby and Ratio without any doubt.

Maybe I should flog the first one on eBay to see what people are actually prepared to pay then and let's see what the market can actually support? I know some fantasy figure painters sell Citadel miniatures of warhammer types on eBay and command up to and exceeding 3 figures per item in some cases.

QUOTE (Lancashire Fusilier @ 13 May 2008, 16:04) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>It is most interesting reading about what people would pay for a generic tubular post upper or lower quadrant starter signal.

I have commenced building my flock (collective term for multiple signals??) of some 50 odd signals based on the fine signal planning performed by one of our very own members here and I would have to say that having never soldered a kit before in my life I am incredibly pleased with results thus far and while the greater audience will no doubt wish to judge this for themselves I would suggest that the "average" modeller is perhaps scared of soldering (as indeed I was before taking the plunge) and thus believes it out of reach.

So far I have spent around 3 hours on the model with simply the lamp, lamp bracket, finial and operating wires to install before the entire metallic components are basically complete. I believe this will take about 1-2 hours tonight and allowing another hour for painting and glazing, bearing in mind I am actually making mine operate with light in the lamp adding a degree of difficulty. I believe the whole thing to probably end up taking about 6 hours in total. Now that is the first ever kit I have ever made. If I can't halve this time within the first dozen or so signals I make, using a little batch building where appropriate, I will be most surprised. I reckon with some basic preparation, ie batch cutting of tubes to lengths and various part removals from frets etc that a single starter could possible be made in as little as a couple of hours.

Where am I going with this?

Great question, however while I firmly believe then that this is all within the capabilities of many of the folk who frequent this forum, the cost therefore of having them made by other's shouldn't be too expensive. I reckon that they could be made on a case by case basis for a reasonable price and perhaps that price is 25-30 quid but for a hand made all metal constructed product is this really too much to pay? I couldn't justify it for 50 or so and besides I couldn't be happier than making them myself believe it or not (some folk actually admit to enjoying ballsting - so there!) however for a smaller layout with say no more than 6 or so signals it could be viable for someone to purchase them. As pointed out they would be superior to Hornby and Ratio without any doubt.

Maybe I should flog the first one on eBay to see what people are actually prepared to pay then and let's see what the market can actually support? I know some fantasy figure painters sell Citadel miniatures of warhammer types on eBay and command up to and exceeding 3 figures per item in some cases.

***bring it with you when next you visit - I'd love to see it!

You are probably about right for hand made with 2~3 hours if batch built, but they'd need to be much faster for production line - no more than 1 hour which I believe is possible. AND - that 2~3 hours would I think make them far more than GBP30 from a pro. (An average sized/complexity brass loco with "out of the box" detail is about 25 hours - and how much do they sell those for???)

I've been looking at this as a possible product and my estimate for a semi mass produced LMS lower or upper quadrant single arm semaphore is somehwere like a direct me > user RRP $A49~$A69 if made in China... that'd be all brass with LED and intended for use with the Veismann damped solenoid or similar.... or a relay (they make a good signal actuator)

The problem is that if I produce one, it'd be the LMS/Midland taper post lower quadrant as I model pre-WW2 - followed by the upper quadrant and then I'd have everyone after me for all the other options ..... Sounds fine as an idea but the quantities for this sot of project are at the 1,000 plus level to keep the cost right and thats a lot of cash!

Plus: To sell that many needs distribution added, and that creates a problem: if it had to go through a couple more pairs of hands with their attendant profit margins then the price would exceed $A99, which would kill the product.

So.... perhaps half that in a hybrid of polycarbonate plastic or similar and etched metal parts may be possible..... I wonder!

It'll be interesting to see if it happens from one of the majors!

Richard
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