I'm not saying what we do is related to Toys but with the recent quality control issues e.g. high level of lead in paint on kids toys would the powers that be at bachmann / hornby assure us there are no such issues with their products?
recent china manufacturing issues
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Hopefully the model railway industry will not be affected, as I believe a lot of the colouring on the models is ink for the tampo process.
Regards
Regards
What's a little lead in some paint...does anyone remember lead soldiers? SOLID lead soldiers?? Besides the Romans ruled half the world and used lead pipes extensively...people are so hilariously risk averse today, and what do they expect if they buy cheap junk from China made at 0.5p per toy??
Regarding model trains, I know people are certainly very found of their favourite model but would they go so far as to suck it? (Besides, poisonous paint will teach the little monsters a lesson at exhibitions with signs saying 'dont touch'!
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Goedel
Regarding model trains, I know people are certainly very found of their favourite model but would they go so far as to suck it? (Besides, poisonous paint will teach the little monsters a lesson at exhibitions with signs saying 'dont touch'!
Goedel
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QUOTE (mifsit @ 15 Aug 2007, 17:07) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I'm not saying what we do is related to Toys but with the recent quality control issues e.g. high level of lead in paint on kids toys would the powers that be at bachmann / hornby assure us there are no such issues with their products?
Actually, I raised this point a year or so ago (not on this forum - on another one) & got "shouted down".
Who knows ? - & can we believe what we are told anyway ?
Actually, I raised this point a year or so ago (not on this forum - on another one) & got "shouted down".
Who knows ? - & can we believe what we are told anyway ?
QUOTE (dbclass50 @ 15 Aug 2007, 19:22) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Actually, I raised this point a year or so ago (not on this forum - on another one) & got "shouted down".
Odd - I made the same experience on a German forum about a year and a half ago...
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Odd - I made the same experience on a German forum about a year and a half ago...
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QUOTE What's a little lead in some paint
Choosing lead as an "Aunt Sally" for the "health and safety gone mad debate" is not a good choice. This Wikipedia article on lead poisoning gives an introduction to the issues involves and points out that the citizens of Rome suffered health problems because of their exposure to lead. If you doubt its accuracy, anyone who knows better and can prove the article can appeal to the Wikipedia editors.
The other cause for concern - ingesting small magnets - also seemed pretty serious to me as outlined on the radio yesterday. All you have to imagine is two of these things a few inches apart in the gut becoming attracted to each other. The result is perforation of the gut wall which is a serious medical condition.
There are plenty of "health and safety gone mad" stories that can be attacked and some of these are really starting to annoy professional Health and Safety officials who refer to it as "Conkers, Bonkers". They blame the problem on "managers", not their own presumeably.
Yes, there are plenty of daft precautions taken or prohibitions made, but citing lead poisoning does not fall into this category.
David
Choosing lead as an "Aunt Sally" for the "health and safety gone mad debate" is not a good choice. This Wikipedia article on lead poisoning gives an introduction to the issues involves and points out that the citizens of Rome suffered health problems because of their exposure to lead. If you doubt its accuracy, anyone who knows better and can prove the article can appeal to the Wikipedia editors.
The other cause for concern - ingesting small magnets - also seemed pretty serious to me as outlined on the radio yesterday. All you have to imagine is two of these things a few inches apart in the gut becoming attracted to each other. The result is perforation of the gut wall which is a serious medical condition.
There are plenty of "health and safety gone mad" stories that can be attacked and some of these are really starting to annoy professional Health and Safety officials who refer to it as "Conkers, Bonkers". They blame the problem on "managers", not their own presumeably.
Yes, there are plenty of daft precautions taken or prohibitions made, but citing lead poisoning does not fall into this category.
David
I don't really have an issue with 'health and safety'...ok, so it gets in the way, at inconvenient times, but it has been developed alongside our own increase in intolerance, to what was, accepted 'behaviour' in times past?
we are less tolerant of certain social behaviour than was once the case....as our preoccupation with crime fears shows?
what the whole above episode demonstrates to me is that, in a world of sub-contracting, it is increasingly difficult to actually keep a finger on the pulse of what is occuring behind one's back, so to speak.
China is no exception.
This country's manufacturing base has been plagued by this underhand, fast-buck behaviour in the past.
Why should we expect China to be an exception?
I feel glad this issue has been brought into the open.
After all, we have had to comply with this H&S legislation for long enough..we all supported its introduction....it has even touched us in the furore seen around Hornby and DCC recently?
maybe the mass recalls, which doubtless will affect the company's concerned, financially, all the way back to China, will serve as a warning that manufacturing shortcuts to make a dollar wont be acceptable?
we are less tolerant of certain social behaviour than was once the case....as our preoccupation with crime fears shows?
what the whole above episode demonstrates to me is that, in a world of sub-contracting, it is increasingly difficult to actually keep a finger on the pulse of what is occuring behind one's back, so to speak.
China is no exception.
This country's manufacturing base has been plagued by this underhand, fast-buck behaviour in the past.
Why should we expect China to be an exception?
I feel glad this issue has been brought into the open.
After all, we have had to comply with this H&S legislation for long enough..we all supported its introduction....it has even touched us in the furore seen around Hornby and DCC recently?
maybe the mass recalls, which doubtless will affect the company's concerned, financially, all the way back to China, will serve as a warning that manufacturing shortcuts to make a dollar wont be acceptable?
QUOTE (dwb @ 15 Aug 2007, 19:03) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Choosing lead as an "Aunt Sally" for the "health and safety gone mad debate" is not a good choice.
Sorry, I was being flippant and no so much having a go at health and safety but more marvelling at how stupid people can be - they never seem to ask themselves "why is this toy so cheap?" - perhaps, and though very unlikely, it was made in the developing world by people paid very little in factories with about as much regulation as there exists about stealing sea water from the sea.
And if children are properly controlled and not allowed to run wild and feral there should be no reason why when they reach a sensible age they can't play safely with lead soldiers et al. as generations have before them, and perhaps wash their hands afterwards .
QUOTE There are plenty of "health and safety gone mad" stories that can be attacked and some of these are really starting to annoy professional Health and Safety officials who refer to it as "Conkers, Bonkers".
But seriously it's exactly those non-job public sector "professional" Health and Safety officials that really annoy me!! They should all be burnt at the stake for striking at one of the roots of civilisation; that now considered daft and old-fashioned idea that people should actually be responsible for their actions! I mean, how bizarre!! Without any risk life is about as sophisticated and as much fun as living on the dole.
Show me a Health and Safety official and I'll show you someone who is a millstone around Civilisation's neck...
Goedel
Sorry, I was being flippant and no so much having a go at health and safety but more marvelling at how stupid people can be - they never seem to ask themselves "why is this toy so cheap?" - perhaps, and though very unlikely, it was made in the developing world by people paid very little in factories with about as much regulation as there exists about stealing sea water from the sea.
And if children are properly controlled and not allowed to run wild and feral there should be no reason why when they reach a sensible age they can't play safely with lead soldiers et al. as generations have before them, and perhaps wash their hands afterwards
.QUOTE There are plenty of "health and safety gone mad" stories that can be attacked and some of these are really starting to annoy professional Health and Safety officials who refer to it as "Conkers, Bonkers".
But seriously it's exactly those non-job public sector "professional" Health and Safety officials that really annoy me!! They should all be burnt at the stake for striking at one of the roots of civilisation; that now considered daft and old-fashioned idea that people should actually be responsible for their actions! I mean, how bizarre!! Without any risk life is about as sophisticated and as much fun as living on the dole.
Show me a Health and Safety official and I'll show you someone who is a millstone around Civilisation's neck...
Goedel
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10,019 Posts
QUOTE But seriously it's exactly those non-job public sector "professional" Health and Safety officials that really annoy me!!
Before you grab your pitch fork, why not listen to this section of the "Today" programme - "0744: Are Health and Safety officers unfairly criticised?" to see what these guys say they are thinking. For one night only, you can get to the programme via this link -
"Today programme Wednesday August 2007" provided you are in the UK of course.
I'm not sure your anger is being directed at the right people.
David
Before you grab your pitch fork, why not listen to this section of the "Today" programme - "0744: Are Health and Safety officers unfairly criticised?" to see what these guys say they are thinking. For one night only, you can get to the programme via this link -
"Today programme Wednesday August 2007" provided you are in the UK of course.
I'm not sure your anger is being directed at the right people.
David
As I child of six I can remember receiving an Airfix series one (the one in a bag) Republic Thunderbolt!
I sat happily at the back of the room with a tube of solvent adhesive sticking the parts together and amazingly it looked something like a plane when I finished- albeit with lots of glue seeping from the edges! Then went on to paint it silver with my Humbrol paints- in the days when paints were thick enough to cover things in one coat (nowadays it takes about 10)
My parents were responsible and would keep an eye- mainly in the event of spillages- always protected carpet with newspapers.
Would any of this be allowed these days under health and safety or do you need to be 18 before you can construct a kit?
Russell
I sat happily at the back of the room with a tube of solvent adhesive sticking the parts together and amazingly it looked something like a plane when I finished- albeit with lots of glue seeping from the edges! Then went on to paint it silver with my Humbrol paints- in the days when paints were thick enough to cover things in one coat (nowadays it takes about 10)
My parents were responsible and would keep an eye- mainly in the event of spillages- always protected carpet with newspapers.
Would any of this be allowed these days under health and safety or do you need to be 18 before you can construct a kit?
Russell
What the bloke in the Radio 4 interview is basically saying is that work managers who are not health and safety professionals are using health and safety as an excuse to get their own way and stop practices that the managers don't agree with and using health and safety as the excuse tarnishing the health and safety profession with a (Humbrol?) bad brush
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The health and safety professional body is sponsoring this years world conker championships!
As long as the manufacturers put the appropriate warnings on the packaging we can all carry on gluing our bits of Airfix together in the home and spraying paint everywhere to our hearts content. Its then at our risk. It is suggested that it is when it is a public Airfix gluing event that there might be an issue. It would be unhelpful to the Airfix cause if a demonstrator of the art of Airfix kit building at a show squirted glue into little Johnny's eye!
On the subject of magnets I did wonder about slot cars. Whilst Hornby Scalextric are definitely CE as magnets are now fitted/clipped within the body of the car there are manufacturers who claim CE whose magnets are very clearly exposed on the underside of the slot car body and which are vunerable.
Maybe this is the reason that Triang Hornby magnatraction was phased out. What about traction tyres though? As they wear/age they can come off the rim of the wheel and could be swallowed so is there a CE issue here?
All anti traction tyre modellers are now jumping up and down in joy and rapture and will now be bombarding Hornby and others with emails!
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Happpy modelling
Gary
The health and safety professional body is sponsoring this years world conker championships!
As long as the manufacturers put the appropriate warnings on the packaging we can all carry on gluing our bits of Airfix together in the home and spraying paint everywhere to our hearts content. Its then at our risk. It is suggested that it is when it is a public Airfix gluing event that there might be an issue. It would be unhelpful to the Airfix cause if a demonstrator of the art of Airfix kit building at a show squirted glue into little Johnny's eye!
On the subject of magnets I did wonder about slot cars. Whilst Hornby Scalextric are definitely CE as magnets are now fitted/clipped within the body of the car there are manufacturers who claim CE whose magnets are very clearly exposed on the underside of the slot car body and which are vunerable.
Maybe this is the reason that Triang Hornby magnatraction was phased out. What about traction tyres though? As they wear/age they can come off the rim of the wheel and could be swallowed so is there a CE issue here?
All anti traction tyre modellers are now jumping up and down in joy and rapture and will now be bombarding Hornby and others with emails!
![](http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="<_<)
Happpy modelling
Gary
QUOTE (Gary @ 15 Aug 2007, 22:59) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>... What about traction tyres though? As they wear/age they can come off the rim of the wheel and could be swallowed so is there a CE issue here?
All anti traction tyre modellers are now jumping up and down in joy and rapture and will now be bombarding Hornby and others with emails!
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Happpy modelling
Gary
Not really up and down, and I most certainly won´t be emailing Hornby of all makers (they won´t reply to my mail anyway, so why bother?).
If the engine with the traction tire is marked "suitable for age 3+", then there may be an issue according to CE (=EU) regulations. If it is marked "suitable ages 12+", then laxer regulations apply.
All anti traction tyre modellers are now jumping up and down in joy and rapture and will now be bombarding Hornby and others with emails!
Happpy modelling
Gary
Not really up and down, and I most certainly won´t be emailing Hornby of all makers (they won´t reply to my mail anyway, so why bother?).
If the engine with the traction tire is marked "suitable for age 3+", then there may be an issue according to CE (=EU) regulations. If it is marked "suitable ages 12+", then laxer regulations apply.
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The issues at this point seem to be about small childrens toys and lead in the paint so It doesn't seem to concern us at this point.
Like Goedel said I tend not to suck on my locos too often.
I do think it's inevitable that there will be problems at some point but whether this is specific to China is a different arguement. Problems may occur anywhere however the pressure on managers in China must be enormous.
We can console ourselves knowing that the guy responsible "committed suicide" so that should send a message to the business that harming the export industry will not be tolerated by the Chinese government.
Like Goedel said I tend not to suck on my locos too often.
I do think it's inevitable that there will be problems at some point but whether this is specific to China is a different arguement. Problems may occur anywhere however the pressure on managers in China must be enormous.
We can console ourselves knowing that the guy responsible "committed suicide" so that should send a message to the business that harming the export industry will not be tolerated by the Chinese government.
Without ''Health and Safety', railways as we have known them may well not have existed.
Tay Bridge disasters would be an everyday occurance.
The railways are a prime example of 'Health & Safety' practices being (some legislatively) in place since the year dot.
virtually every practice found within the operation or construction of railways and associated equipment has its basis on 'safety'.
simply because, the human element CANNOT be relied upon to exercise its own 'safety' proceedures.
Look at the road around the world?
and the safety issues surrounding those?.....And those that use them?
The Highway Code came into being, simply because the human element patetly failed to provide its own safety proceedures, on an individual basis.
The accident statistics proved that.
Health & Safety is a vital element of everybody's working and living environment.
it is there, simply because human beings as individuals simply cannot, or do not, understand the issues of risk.
the ''conker'' issue arose, not through any concern about children suffering, potentially, serous injuries..(and knowing children's behaviour these days, causing injury might well be the intent, rather than hitting a conker......and I wonder where a child would get that behaviour from? Us adults?)........but through concern that teh School itself might become victim of our self-induced compensation culture.
thus,'' health and safety'' really was not the culprit..simply the whipping boy.
the real culprits in our H&S conscious wolrd are in fact us, ,the people.....and the attititudes we adopt.
H&S is simply the re-action to our own selfishness and irresponsibility.
Goedel thinks life would not be the same without an element of 'risk?'
for far too many, it isn't.......as a result of someone pushing the 'risk envelope?'
If anybody doesn't see what I mean, take a look at your individual driving standards out on the roads?
I mean, a REAL look.
don't confuse the safe arrival at journey's end with safe driving.......one's safe arrival is likely to be as much down to 'luck' as 'intent'.
next time out on the road, just take an honest look at how much of your safety and wellbeing is ACTULALLY down to the actions of others with regards to what you do?
relying on OTHER road users and their actions, to keep YOU safe?
In my book, not a good environment to be in...relying on others?
but it happens all the time...which is why we NEED Health and safety proceedures.
Tay Bridge disasters would be an everyday occurance.
The railways are a prime example of 'Health & Safety' practices being (some legislatively) in place since the year dot.
virtually every practice found within the operation or construction of railways and associated equipment has its basis on 'safety'.
simply because, the human element CANNOT be relied upon to exercise its own 'safety' proceedures.
Look at the road around the world?
and the safety issues surrounding those?.....And those that use them?
The Highway Code came into being, simply because the human element patetly failed to provide its own safety proceedures, on an individual basis.
The accident statistics proved that.
Health & Safety is a vital element of everybody's working and living environment.
it is there, simply because human beings as individuals simply cannot, or do not, understand the issues of risk.
the ''conker'' issue arose, not through any concern about children suffering, potentially, serous injuries..(and knowing children's behaviour these days, causing injury might well be the intent, rather than hitting a conker......and I wonder where a child would get that behaviour from? Us adults?)........but through concern that teh School itself might become victim of our self-induced compensation culture.
thus,'' health and safety'' really was not the culprit..simply the whipping boy.
the real culprits in our H&S conscious wolrd are in fact us, ,the people.....and the attititudes we adopt.
H&S is simply the re-action to our own selfishness and irresponsibility.
Goedel thinks life would not be the same without an element of 'risk?'
for far too many, it isn't.......as a result of someone pushing the 'risk envelope?'
If anybody doesn't see what I mean, take a look at your individual driving standards out on the roads?
I mean, a REAL look.
don't confuse the safe arrival at journey's end with safe driving.......one's safe arrival is likely to be as much down to 'luck' as 'intent'.
next time out on the road, just take an honest look at how much of your safety and wellbeing is ACTULALLY down to the actions of others with regards to what you do?
relying on OTHER road users and their actions, to keep YOU safe?
In my book, not a good environment to be in...relying on others?
but it happens all the time...which is why we NEED Health and safety proceedures.
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