Remotoring

5005 Views 16 Replies 9 Participants Last post by Ravenser, Sep 9, 2006

train_depot

Discussion Starter · Aug 25, 2006

Maybe this isn't quite the right forum but in discussing DCC decoders the topic of some motors being "bad" for DCC or some just being plain bad seems to arise quite often.

So that begs the question, so why not replace the motor?

But I never seem to see anything about how to go about doing it. Why is that? Is it too hard? Nothing suitable commercially? Not worth it? Too many different applications?

You would think (or at least I do) that with certain types of motor being so common (like the open frame types used by Hornby) that you'd be able to buy nice drop in replacements.

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John Webb

· #2 · Aug 26, 2006

There's a very interesting article in the current (September) British Railway Modelling, on page 78/79, about the Triang X04 motor and some of the attempts to provide replacements once it had been dropped from production.
Another problem is that apparently there are no replacement brushes available any more for those who wish to continue using X04 and similar motors.
Perhaps one or more of the national societies could organise something? They are more likely to be able to get sufficient numbers to make up viable orders than individuals or even clubs.
Regards,
John Webb

train_depot

Discussion Starter · #3 · Aug 27, 2006

Unfortunately being in Texas I can't buy BRM although I do subscribe to RM.

So I guess the article agreed with what I was saying? That there aren't really any current solutions?

Makemineadouble

· #4 · Aug 27, 2006 (Edited by Moderator)

2

I've always regarded the Ringfield motor as a lemon for DCC. The pre-very recent ones are slightly improved, by adding a couple of poles. I hav'nt bought a tender drive engine since 2001 because of poor performance. The Ringfield lacks torque, and true controlability which is what's need for DCC.

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train_depot

Discussion Starter · #5 · Aug 28, 2006

3

QUOTE (Makemineadouble @ 27 Aug 2006, 01:54) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I've always regarded the Ringfield motor as a lemon for DCC.

Why do you say that they are a lemon for DCC? After all, from the motor's point of view, DCC is just another form of power controller that happens to be located inside the locomotive. Is it the type of regulation that makes it a lemon (pusle modulation as opposed to DC voltage)?

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Makemineadouble

· #6 · Aug 28, 2006

2

The problem with the 3 pole Ringfield is lack of torque and controlability. I've never bothered with the 5 pole version as I'd given up on tender drives by then. Another point is I personally don't like the combination of traction tyres and DCC.

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John Webb

· #7 · Aug 28, 2006

Michael C Shaw, the author of the BRM article, reckons there is a Marklin brush that can be modified to fit the X04. But there does seem to be an element of appeal in the article for someone to organise a 'plug-in' replacement motor, perhaps with 5 poles or more rather than the X04's three to give smoother running.
Regards,
John Webb

neil_s_wood

· #8 · Sep 1, 2006

At a model rail show in Australia earlier this year there was a guy selling motors to replace the crappy ones in Lima trains. There was a recent article in either RM or Model Rail which reviewed or covered this. I can't remember which it was. But anyway this should be a good reference point for anyone wanting to improve their loco.

I would agree with MMaD's comment about tender drives and DCC. I converted a Merchant Navy and a Britania with the same chips and the Merchant navy (motor in the body) is great whereas the Britannia (tender drive) is rubbish.

Dennis David

· #9 · Sep 1, 2006

I like the drive in the boiler like Trix with the chip in the tender.

Ozzie21

· #10 · Sep 1, 2006

2

There all good points. The older 3 pole pancake motors don't stackup very well but the 5 pole does in both of Britannia's and a Castle with the boiler version. I used Lenz silver series decoders in all three and the perform as well as a Mashima or Sagami equipped model. The much older Xo4 isn';t a good choice as it's current draw can be quite high and can exceeed the stall current of most HO sized decoders. Bowser in the USofA make a DCC compatible motor similar to an Xo4 that may use similar brushes. This motor is based on a Pittman DC61 and may be a size larger than An X04 but could be a suitable replacement for an 04.
Check out www.bowser-trains.com for more information.

Ozzie21

QUOTE (Makemineadouble @ 29 Aug 2006, 03:19) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The problem with the 3 pole Ringfield is lack of torque and controlability. I've never bothered with the 5 pole version as I'd given up on tender drives by then. Another point is I personally don't like the combination of traction tyres and DCC.

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neil_s_wood

· #11 · Sep 2, 2006

QUOTE I used Lenz silver series decoders in all three and the perform as well as a Mashima or Sagami equipped model.

I was going to replace the Bachmann decoder I put in the Britannia with a Lenz silver like you recommended Ozzie. I just haven't got round to buying them yet. I am hoping this will sort it out as it's a good loco and I don't want to retire it.

hoonsou

· #12 · Sep 5, 2006

Neil,
I think you're talking about 'Modeltorque' Motors, which are Ringfields for replacing rotten old Lima Motors. I've used two of them and coupled with Lenz Silvers, they run very nicely. Now for some ultrascale Wheels.

Train Depot,
I have heard of someone in England that do a frame for holding replacement Motors. If you look on RMWeb when it's back on air, I think it was mentioned recently. These Frames, if I'm right also give the correct adjustment for the Gears.

pedromorgan

· #13 · Sep 5, 2006

i think it was ICM that did a motor that was supposedly a direct replacement for the XO4. the trouble was getting the gearing right. when i tried one the motor was a wonderfull fir but then i had the problem of getting the gears meshing properly and then quatering the wheels.

I am not sure about using brushless DC motors on DCC? DCC after the chip is the same as PWM contorollers (pulse width modulation). i may just be hoing crackers but i have never tried it. has anyone tired DCC with a portescap.

Peter

Ozzie21

· #14 · Sep 6, 2006

Neil, was your Brit fitted with a DCC socket? Both of mine were so fitted. I removed the cap and lightened the brush springs on both units. The Castle was treated the same way although is performance isn't quite as good as the Brit's but then it's also done a lot less running as I have no WR stock to run behind it. On the Brits I shortened the draw bar by moving the tender pin back a diameter and a half. I remounted the pin on a piece of 40thou plasticard with PCB plate glued on top. I had to recess the plasticard slightly to maintain the pin at the same height. It got the tender much closer to the loco so the fireman didn't need a compass and a cut lunch to find it.

Ozzie21

QUOTE (neil_s_wood @ 2 Sep 2006, 12:31) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I was going to replace the Bachmann decoder I put in the Britannia with a Lenz silver like you recommended Ozzie. I just haven't got round to buying them yet. I am hoping this will sort it out as it's a good loco and I don't want to retire it.

neil_s_wood

· #15 · Sep 6, 2006

Hi Ozzie, it's the Hornby Clive of India which didn't have a socket. This is about four or five years old now I think. It is still a good loco so I don't want to retire it just yet. I have ordered some Lenz gold decoders so I will put one in when I get them. So hopefully that should fix it.

Makemineadouble

· #16 · Sep 7, 2006

2

My Brit runs like a dream, and has sound as well. It has loco drive, from Model Yard.

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Ravenser

· #17 · Sep 9, 2006

There is a "drop in" 5-pole replacement for the Lima pancake made by an Aussie firm , either Model Torque or Model Yard (Neil Woods would know the correct name). The price is quite reasonable (under £20 I think) and the Engine Shed, Leytonstone are UK importers.

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