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Rob P's coach workbench

33060 Views 127 Replies 10 Participants Last post by  Rob Pulham
Having taken the plunge in stripping the cab of the A3 prior to making the roof removable did I continue with the F8?

Nah! I am sure that it will come as no surprise that it didn't take much encouragement from Chris for me to start on one of the coach kits that she bought me for my birthday.

This is some of what's in the box - for this particular coach I am still waiting for the underframe and bogie etches.

Having had a read of the quite comprehensive instructions available for download from the kemilway site it reckons about a hundred and fifty hours to build a coach depending on experience. Having had some of these kits in 4mm some years ago I had an idea what to expect and this is where I got to after 4 hours yesterday.

The floor pan folded up and the inner ends curved with the formers soldered in.

Both sides have their separate bottom panels soldered in.

Even though I had filed of the etching cusps I struggled with the first side to get the panels in flat etc. with a couple needing to be dropped out and repositioned. On the second side I made doubly sure that I had removed the cusps and I put a slight chamfer on the edges of each panel. This meant that they snapped into place with ease and I soldered up the second side in half the time it took for the first - a lesson learned for the next one.
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OK thanks for that. I'll use the bogies I have - for now anyway until I get a sense of what I like. The extra parts I ordered are more than twice the cost of the coach parts pack
I'll probably do a post of the build on one or more forums.

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The problem with using other people's bogies for the NPCS vehicles is that most of them supply the standard 8' 6" (The JLRT's that I fitted above were 8' 6") when you really need the 8' ones for the parcels stock (either Fox or Gresley). Besides Ian Kirk the only other person that does 8 foot bogies is Peter Dobson formerly of Newbould Models. He wound the business down now but still supplies bit's and pieces. I stocked up on a couple of sets of each at when I saw him at Telford.
Good info Rob. Since I know very little about LNER coaches I ordered the Isinglass drawings to try to make sure I get things as right as I can.

I've been dealing with Invertrain who at least have an online shop and do PayPal. They list some 8' bogies from Wayoh - Fox and Gresley.

A problem I can see, living overseas, is that such a lot of O gauge traders seem not to have much of an online presence and rely on snail mail and cheques. My email to Kirk got returned because the address on the site didn't work

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Got you John, It's frustrating enough getting hold of some stuff in the UK without trying from abroad.

Funnily enough I see Invertrain at a few shows and have bought from Chris but I haven't bought mail order.

I have no experience of Wayoh bogies either (other than they exist and that Invertrain stock them) so it's useful to know that they do 8 foot varieties and also interesting to note that they do 6 wheeled Pullman bogies which I will need for a project at some point.

I have a commission to build a 52ft Gresley BG early next year so I will update this thread to give you a bit of encouragement.
Ditto on the Wayoh bogies Rob, but I imagine they'll do the job.

I'm taking my time with the coach builds - I still have a lot of 4mm stuff to do and I do wonder whether I'll be able to do both scales.

QUOTE (Brossard @ 29 Sep 2016, 19:13) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Ditto on the Wayoh bogies Rob, but I imagine they'll do the job.

I'm taking my time with the coach builds - I still have a lot of 4mm stuff to do and I do wonder whether I'll be able to do both scales.


I am sure that they will John, I certainly haven't heard any adverse comments about them. I am going along to the Keighley 7mm Festival next weekend and Invertrain will be there so I may take the opportunity to have a look at them in the flesh.

Regarding doing 4mm and 7mm at the same time, I made that mistake. Having built a 7mm LMS BG bought by my good lady as a Christmas present because I fancied having a go at something in O gauge I tried to put the same level of detail onto my 4mm stuff and found it a bit frustrating. Ii very quickly finished of what 4mm stuff I could, and then sold it all except my Hornby live steam and I haven't looked back.
It will good to hear what you think about the Wayohs.

I'm afraid you are right about 4mm. I do like to add as much detail as I can to RTR and kits. I have a whitemetal kit of a Flatiron going at the moment and it really is a struggle to make it even approach the level of detail that we get in RTR these days. I've been telling myself that I will persevere with the work currently in progress until the end of the year. Next year perhaps a fresh start in 7mm.

I am jealous of the number of shows you get. We get very few and the standard of layout is usually pretty poor and not even British!

QUOTE (Brossard @ 30 Sep 2016, 16:10) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I am jealous of the number of shows you get. We get very few and the standard of layout is usually pretty poor and not even British!

Yes I feel quite fortunate in that I get as many O Gauge only shows as I want to attend and the furthest afield I go is Telford which is about two and a half hours drive away. There are a few O Gauge shows that I don't attend, Kettering, Bristol and Reading which I view as too far away.

I gave up attending mixed gauge shows three or four years ago when I realised that there were so many traders who were not interested in talking to you if you were not buying anything.

I find that at the larger scale shows everyone seems to have time for you and you can have good conversation with both layout exhibitors and traders alike.
Taking advantage of a few days at home in Wakefield in between doing battle with DCC I have been building a few items in brass.

The first is a pair of Newbould Models 8' Gresley bogies. These are destined for another 51' full brake, this time a gangwayed version.

Don Gillam, the gent who bought the non gangwayed version that I had for sale back in August, asked if I would build another Kirk kit that he had bought but not started on on his behalf.

This is where I have got to.

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Although still recovering I managed to get more done on the Kirk BG last weekend.

There was a small moulding fault on one of the sections so I elected to use it in the side that I was cutting out for the ducket. The ducket itself is one of my Silhouette cut examples Oddly I needed to cut a couple of different sizes because the ones that I had left from the last build were slightly small in the hole.

There was another issue with the solebars for the kit which were all twisted as they came. An email from Don to Ian Kirk had some replacements in the post next day. I had already stuck the sides together so it wasn't worth asking Ian to replace the section with the moulding fault. I just cut the section out squarely and let in a piece of styrene rod. Once dry I filed it to shape (much like they would have repaired damage to a coach in service). - I must take this opportunity to commend Ian for his prompt service.

Three weeks ago I had added the base plates for the bump stops, I added the bump stops themselves on Saturday. After leaving them over night to set I filed them to uniform length using a scrap of 10 thou styrene with a hole in it. I also add the upper hinges but I will leave the lower ones until later because they are a bit vulnerable.

I also worked on detailing the ends - I like to build up as many sub assemblies as I can before putting it together.

First I made a couple of door knobs from some styrene rod.

Then I added them to the doors in the ends along with lamp irons and lighting connectors. I used my ever handy lense tissue to make the canvas tops for the corridor connections.

And finally I detailed up the Dynamos. These are a bit plain as they come and I had initially stuck a H section stem but seeing a 1/32 scratch build of a Pullman coach over on RMweb shamed me into doing something better. - I still need to make the mounting brackets yet. There are two because Don has asked me to build and all third to go with the other two as well.

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Further work ensued on the BG this weekend and it's now starting to look coach like.

Ignore the bogies, they were to hand so I used them to prop the coach on for the photos

In between I made up the battery boxes for the all 3rd.
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Work progressed over the weekend with much of the available time being spent on fitting the roof which is now almost there. It's the first one of Ian's bow ended roofs that I have tackled and I am sure another would be much easier.

In between sessions on the roof I attached the battery box and prepared the V hangers for the vacuum cylinders. Not many words and not much to show visually either.

What is worth sharing visually, is that I did more work to one of the dynamos.

Starting from this, if you will forgive the repeat of an earlier photo.

And using this as my working example (this is one of the very nice Sidelines castings).

I arrived at this.

I am so pleased with the result that I plan to rip gently prise the dynamo off the parcels coach that I am building for myself which just needs final details and painting and modifying it to the same spec.
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To quote a comedian whose name I cannot remember - "and there's more"

Last night I only had a little time at the bench and got completely distracted from the brake van by thoughts on vacuum tanks for the all third. I recently managed to get some really good underfloor detail photos from an LNER 3 compartment first at Stainmore railway. which included good shots of vacuum tanks and cylinders - They are on my Flickr site should anyone need them

This is where I got to, they still need much cleaning up and for the legs to be straightened/cut to length and I plan to solder them to some scrap brass plate to give an area to glue to.

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A few days off has enabled further progress with the coach builds.

The roof for the BG is now complete.

The sides for the all third have had their T handles carved off and all parts are now joined together to make each side.

More work has ensued on the underframe of the BG but I haven't taken any photos yet - hopefully tomorrow.
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This weekend saw the bogies completed and primed. I had initially struggled to work out how to get the ABS Cavalier bogies together and an email to Adrian had him suggesting the addition of bit's of welding rod to strengthen them. Having discussed the matter with Don we agreed that if I couldn't get them together then I would use the Kirk bogies supplied instead.

Lo and behold when I looked again at them yesterday morning it all became clear and they were assembled in no time. There was minimal flash and I just had to file the ends of the bogie sides where they fit into the ends ever so slightly to remove a gap.

On the Newbould bogies shown mostly complete earlier I adjusted the springs that I had wrong to sit under the spring stops, then added the bolsters and the brakes. Both sets had a good wash and then a squirt with primer.

I will leave this until next week to harden completely before putting on the top coat of black.

Newbould 8' on the left, ABS/Cavalier 8'6" on the right.

Newbould 8'

ABS/Cavalier 8'6" - and of course I see from the photos that I need to add some handles to the axle box fronts...

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Don's coaches came on quite a bit over the weekend, to the degree that that BG is down to working from a check list of final details. - I will need to replace the lamp irons with something made of brass because the styrene ones are really vulnerable. Out of the 4 fitted one has come off completely and two more are bent and will snap off soon.

The all 3rd has it's roof cut to length and the floor in. Because the insides are effectively flat sided I have decided to add a false floor with the interior partitions and seats mounted upon it. I will then insert this from the top before fastening the roof on.

Here's where we are so far. Although it's not visible in the photo the roof has it's canvas covering on too.

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I got a little more done on the All 3rd this weekend. - Sole bars, footsteps, battery boxes and queen posts all got fitted. I also did a bit more work on fitting the roof of the BG but there's nothing really to see. I also got the mounting brackets fitted on the dynamo but I forgot to bring it home for photos (not that it looks any different to the one that I did for the BG to be fair).

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This last weekend saw a little more progress on the Kirk coaches.

The seating is assembled for the all third and the roof made ready to fit.

Conversations on a few forums around how to attach the roof, have had the side effect of making me think about fitting passengers (which neither Don or I had considered/discussed). Due to me having already glued the floor in ( I won't do that on future builds) I was exploring unobtrusive ways that I might make the room removable.

Having consulted Don who agreed that we should make provision for the fitting of passengers. - Albeit not that many due to the decline of passengers using the line in Don's modelled period. I was still mulling over various ways of fixing the roof when I realised that the roof ends don't quite match the profile of the ends of the coach. This is due to the way that Ian makes them by vacuum forming. When I say don't quite fit I am sure that the discrepancy will be taken up by gluing the roofs on as originally planned. But if I attempted to screw them on in any way, I would be left with an unsightly gap at either end.

A bit more head scratching and looking at the way that windows fit I decided that I could make it so that the windows cannot be dislodged by handling (which was another fear of gluing the roof on) and that if I fitted some passengers before gluing the roof down, it would mean that Don didn't need to gain access to do it later.

I had some Slaters seated passengers to hand and they provided a welcome distraction and rekindling of interest,which I have to confess due to pressures at work was waning a little.

While the painting of said passengers (particularly the faces) isn't as good as some on here, I am pleased with how they have come out and they will certainly pass muster inside the gloomy interior of the coach once matt varnished.

If you wonder why they are sat above the box instead of on it, that's because I have inserted a length of plastic rod to enable me to old them while painting and and it will help in making them securely fastened to the seats when fitted.
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