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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As much as I love it very much, decided to do an operation on my Roco Br44.

Here is the plan:

Until lately, when running , the loco wheels keeps locking itself up. For those of you not familiar with the running system, it is tender driven also with a cardan shaft comming out of the tender which goes thru the firebox to a gear system inside the loco body, transmiting the torque to the loco wheels as well.

Now seems like there is something wrong with the sync between tender motor and the gear system receiving the torque thru the cardan shaft.

I am simply planning to get rid of the shaft and gear mechanism inside the loco body, make it only tender driven and avoid the interlocking of the loco wheels.

I will also gain enough space, once the shaft is gone, for future sound decoder instalment. The firebox already open for the shaft can easily accomodate a loudspeaker.

Need yr opinion, should I go ahead or would I worsen things up

Baykal
 

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QUOTE (ebaykal @ 4 Jun 2007, 15:35) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I am simply planning to get rid of the shaft and gear mechanism inside the loco body, make it only tender driven and avoid the interlocking of the loco wheels. I will also gain enough space, once the shaft is gone, for future sound decoder instalment. The firebox already open for the shaft can easily accomodate a loudspeaker. Need yr opinion, should I go ahead or would I worsen things up
Hello Baykal,

Could you just take out a single gear and see how well it performs with the loco wheel mechanism being driven from friction against the rails? Is it possible to run the model 'naked' and observe how it how it works and where it is catching, perhaps a small adjustment will make a big difference?

Also does the model have a guarantee etc. - could you send it back to Roco for 'repair'?

Personally, Roco have never replied to a single one of my emails so I probably wouldn't want to send my favourite locomotive back to them even if they did design it....or perhaps this is just because Roco don't seem to give a
about N scale at the moment and my queries/requests were all N related??

I'm sure ME 26-06 will have something useful to say this!

Goedel
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi Goedel,

I am cursing myself on this one actually. Its all my fault. It was my last day in Nurnberg, plane leaves 2:30 afternoon, checked out of the hotel 11:00 am and my friend says he has found an adress of a rail shop and tempts me for a quicky visit. How can you say no? Thats what we did took a taxi to the rail shop. Asked the guy behind the counter my classic question: Do you happen to have a Roco Br44? (knowing that it is discontinued and simply toying out. That the new one will be out due July 2007. )

He goes behind and brings back one!!! Call it self indulgence or whatever you like I just grabbed it without controling it.Tucked it in my suitcase and flew back home. Once I opened the box at home found out that the info leaflets and the plastic bits and pieces that Roco usually give out are all missing. Seems like I have been had with a problematic Br44. Anyway serves me right.

Shall do what you say first hand and see how it goes.

Cheers
Baykal
 

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Hi Baykal,

what exactly do you mean by "lock up"? Does the engine stall, or does it run irregularly?

Tom :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hi Tom,

No, the motor works fine.No problem there.Its the gear mechanism inside the loco body which gets stuck for some unknown reason locking the loco wheels and the coupling rods.

I have done some research on the web just writing " Roco Cardan Shaft" into google and was surprised of the outcome.

Here is what I found from various forums:

"...However a recent purchase of a BR93 revealed a split plastic ball joint on a cardan shaft. I believe that this is a common failure and that Roco have replaced this item with a metal ball joint that is bonded to the drive shaft..."

"....Roco have been using Cardan shafts on many of their more recent models and there seems to be a quality issue with failures of the plastic male portions of the ball/socket.

This is not helped by Roco's inability (albeit short term) to supply replacement parts which may fail again?

Given these two factors, those who own Roco models with Cardan shafts have a potential problem, this is not my first time with these issues..... "


Now am I in trouble or what?

Baykal
 

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Baykal, the cardan shaft problems you´ve mentioned are well known; they have been around for quite some time.

However, the cardan shafts mentioned in your quotes are not the same that are used in the tender-drive locos. The ones with problems have little "balls" on both ends that tend(ed) to crack.

To me, it sounds as if your problem may be related to the driving rods rather than the gears. Have you disassembled the engine yet? You may want to take the worm gear part out of its box and check whether the problem is still present.

Oh yeah, I forgot - there are some addresses that still sell "old" Roco spares. I´ll post them tomorrow for all after I double-check whether they´re still valid. One of them is a company called APC Adams, iirc.

I don´t think you´re in trouble, just in for some repair work

=:cool:
 

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I have the version that is tender powered and also find this problem

The only way I find to cure it is to strip the chassic down and clean all moving parts including axles

This usually solves the problem.

All the best,

David
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Guys, I am very frustrated


Took the loco apart as seen below:



You can clearly see the cardan shaft, the white plastic ball, the worm and gears.

Then took the worm and all gears out:



Between you and me with all this stuff out one gains a huge space for a loudspeaker


Anyway, with all the gear out tested on track. Locking of the wheels continued.


Only other place left was to check the side rods of the wheels and to my surprise found out that one was missing causing the wheels to lock:



It seems that I was really had, bigtime, from the shop that I bought it from. It looks like it was played with and being the sucker I am fell for it.

Besides, as you can see from the above picture, that the crescent shaped parts on the wheels should all be on the same level which is clearly not so. Trying to fix that up I spoiled all the sync of the rods further.

The loco's on my bench and we both are staring at each other at the moment.......

Baykal
 

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Hi Baykal,

I sort of figured it would be the rods... sorry.

The crescent-shaped parts are weights in real life, and on many German freight engines, they are not aligned. Even on passenger engines, as this photo shows:



I´ve heard that this company is very helpful if you need Roco spares, just in case.

Edit: here you can see that on the class 44, the second wheelset´s weights look as if they are "different" from the rest:

 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks Tom,

Seems that it was all along the rods.

Need some spares now. Shall get in touch with the link. Still figuring out how to sort the rod configuration that I messed up.

Cheers

Baykal
 

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Hi Baykal,

if I were you, I´d get the first axle complete with wheels, any missing parts, and a second (or third, in case I´d mess something up :) ) plastic plug to secure the rod on the "other", undamaged side.

That should eliminate all possible sources for "locking up".

Bye,

Tom
 

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Baykal,

Is the coupling rod present on the other side if so it looks as if the quartering on the first set of wheels is way out, as the hole for the coupling rod small screw is not visable
it should be in line with the other wheels.
Is the screw also missing.
I would get in touch with [email protected] to see if they can advise you on the best course of action.
I am very surprised that a retailer ( you seriously found a bad un ) supplied a model in this condition to you,as I find the shops I visit in Germany are very eager to demonstrate the models they are selling,which includes having it running on a test track.

All the best,

David

Howes do a Roco spares service with credit card payment,website www.howesmodels.co.uk
 

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if I were you, I´d get the first axle complete with wheels, any missing parts, and a second (or third, in case I´d mess something up :) ) plastic plug to secure the rod on the "other", undamaged side.

Tom, can you pls explain in simple words.I am a bit of an idiot in this respect.

I am very surprised that a retailer ( you seriously found a bad un ) supplied a model in this condition to you,as I find the shops I visit in Germany are very eager to demonstrate the models they are selling,which includes having it running on a test track.

David,

Its my fault completely. The sheer excitement of finding a loco long sought after, having a plane to catch and all that .. and I'm not counting the honesty of the shop owner who could have at least have the decency to tell me beforehand the situation of the loco. ( Would I buy it then?...Paradox?)

Serves me right.

Thanks all
Baykal
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·


Thanks Peter.

Cheers
Baykal
 

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QUOTE (ebaykal @ 7 Jun 2007, 11:13) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>if I were you, I´d get the first axle complete with wheels, any missing parts, and a second (or third, in case I´d mess something up :) ) plastic plug to secure the rod on the "other", undamaged side.

Tom, can you pls explain in simple words.I am a bit of an idiot in this respect.

Thanks all
Baykal

Sure (and imho, you´re no idiot
)

I´d order the first axle, complete with wheels and all, as a spare part and install it instead of the one that you wrote you tried to align the crescent-shaped weight on. The angles of the crescent on the left and right wheel have to be at a very specific angle (both), or else the engine will stall, or have a rough ride. If you did anything with these wheels, it will be difficult to restore the original position of the weights, so it would be easier to buy a new wheelset imho.

The driving rods are fitted with some plastic "bolts"; they may break when you disassemble the wheelset. You may want to order spare bolts as well, in case they really do break, you´d be on the safe side.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Well finally have done it. She is back running with her new rods. It took me a neat 4 hours to assemble them in sync.

Tom thanks for all the advise and pointing me to Gustav Adams.



Cheers
Baykal
 

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Hi David,

I'm modelling Turkish steams but anyway, nearly all of them were of German stock with a couple of exceptions.

I have collected most of them.

I still need Br56,85,78 and 24

As you can see I have removed the witte deflectors cause the sncf 44's running in Turkey were without them.

Cheers Baykal
 
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