[edzmen]

I have just finished fitting a Hornby Decoder to my DCC ready Hornby Class 5.
[My first time at decoder fitting!]

As ive not yet got my DCC track system fully up and running, I decided to make sure the loco still ran OK using my DC track and controllers.
[I presumed this wouldn't cause a problem, as Hornby advertise their decoders as being able to function with DC...]

However, the Class 5 seemed to run noticeably more roughly and less smoothly on the DC track after the fitting of the decoder.

So my question is; is rougher running 'the norm' when using a chipped loco on DC track?
[Bearing in mind i have NOT yet programmed the Hornby Decoder via my Select controller, perhaps this may be a factor?]

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

Ed

 

[M8 INTERNET]

Yes, this is normal

 

[edzmen]

Well thats made me feel a bit better, thanks.

So i presume that the loco will run as smooth as its used to, when its running under DCC control and programmed?

 

[Makemineadouble]

Depending how the decoder is setup but it should be silky smooth on DCC. Why don't you set up a simple test track, I have one on my work bench I just connect my DCC leads with clips. It will give you an instant idea of what to expect.

 

[loviatar]

As far as I know, having a chip present should not alter the running characteristics on plain DC - all my G scale stuff runs perfectly on plain DC, as if the chip isn't even there.

 

[Gary]

Hmm...

...are you are using an analogue controller with a back EMF function which sends out a pulse?

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[edzmen]

QUOTE (Gary @ 17 Dec 2006, 19:32) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hmm...

...are you are using an analogue controller with a back EMF function which sends out a pulse?

Happy modelling
Gary

Sorry im not good with technical jargon- the DC controller in using is a Hornby R965 with a C912 transformer.

 

[Gary]

Ok so you are running the train set Hornby controller. This controller does offer a start. You will definitely improve performance in all aspects of running by upgrading your standard Hornby controller although you are reporting a relative difference between those locos that do not have a decoder fitted and those who do. This difference may be less noticeable with a controller upgrade.

Are you using the power clip that comes with this controller or the Digital track power clip?

The ordinary power clip has a supressor inside it. The Digital track power clip does not.

Are there any opinions on which should be used?

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[edzmen]

QUOTE (Gary @ 17 Dec 2006, 20:21) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Are you using the power clip that comes with this controller or the Digital track power clip?

The ordinary power clip has a supressor inside it. The Digital track power clip does not.

No Im using the ordinary power clip complete will supressor inside. [The Class 5 also still has its supressor attached to the motor. I was going to remove this but the installation guide I used said it wouldn't make much difference.]

When I get my DCC controller set up I'm aiming to still use the ordinary DC power clip for the lines, but I'll remove the supressor, as ive heard this can effect the running of DCC.

Could it be the supressors in the loco and power clip, thats causing the irregular running?

 

[Gary]

Use the Digital track power clip with your standard Hornby controller and see if that makes a difference first before taking more drastic action with the loco. I have a sneeky feeling the loco suppressor should go also but how do others feel about this?

The Hornby digital goods train set locos do not have any suppression fitted.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (edzmen @ 17 Dec 2006, 17:23) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>So my question is; is rougher running 'the norm' when using a chipped loco on DC track?
[Bearing in mind i have NOT yet programmed the Hornby Decoder via my Select controller, perhaps this may be a factor?]
Thanks for any advice you can offer.

Ed

Yes, this is often normal - suggest you get rid of the suppression cap as well - some decoders are OK with it left in place, others not. In any case it is not required in a DCC controlled loco as the decoder itself has suppression on board..

The other thing to double check is to make sure that both motor brushes are completely isolated from the chassis & both pick ups.

 

[edzmen]

QUOTE (dbclass50 @ 17 Dec 2006, 21:26) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Yes, this is often normal - suggest you get rid of the suppression cap as well - some decoders are OK with it left in place, others not. In any case it is not required in a DCC controlled loco as the decoder itself has suppression on board..

Ok, thanks for that.

So removing the supressor is just a case of snipping it off where it connects to its wires? No soldering required?

 

[neil_s_wood]

I was going to suggest soldering your power wires direct to the tracks until I saw your last post.

 

[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (edzmen @ 17 Dec 2006, 21:43) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Ok, thanks for that.

So removing the supressor is just a case of snipping it off where it connects to its wires? No soldering required?

Just snip it off - btw - have you soldered your other connections ? (sorry to "but in" Neil).

 

[Peter_Harvey]

From what I have heard about Hornby Decoders its probably safer to use them with DC rather than DCC you may find that as soon as you setup the decoder in your class 5 it may blow up in the model or cause your DCC system to blow I know of one DCC user that has had to send his Lenz system back to Lenz as he tried a Hornby Decoder and it fryed his Lenz 100 system.

Plus if you buy a hornby DCC set you you will not be able to use any other DCC locos on it as it is NOT NMRA compatable in any way shape or form without risk of damage to your loco models.

Pete

 

[Gary]

To be fair Peter the request for information has come from a forum member using a Hornby Select console.

QUOTE Plus if you buy a hornby DCC set you you will not be able to use any other DCC locos on it as it is NOT NMRA compatable in any way shape or form without risk of damage to your loco models.

This is a potentially libellous statement.

My Bachmann chipped locos run fine with my Hornby digital set up.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[edzmen]

QUOTE (Gary @ 18 Dec 2006, 09:49) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>To be fair Peter the request for information has come from a forum member using a Hornby Select console.

My Bachmann chipped locos run fine with my Hornby digital set up.

Happy modelling
Gary

Yes, with respect, I think Peter's comments were a bit extreme.

I've decided to use Hornby decoders with the Hornby Select console. If Hornby's decoders blew up with their own controllers I think their DCC division would have called a total product recall by now...

 

[Peter_Harvey]

Hornby do not say that there system is fully NMRA compatable in the literature they have been very clever in how they have worded there literature.

Pete

 

[Gary]

Hornby state this on the literature included with their decoders:-

QUOTE The Hornby locomotive decoders may be used with all standard digital control equipment that conforms to the NMRA standards

One reason why the internet community as a whole is currently getting more feedback on Hornby digital everywhere than on any other digital system right now is that it seems to be selling very well with plenty of users. There are clear signs that interest in digital is on the up among the average modeller.

There are a very small number here who say claim the Hornby system is "junk" compared to their own current set up and who have not actually used the system. Those who are actual first time users probably view things entirely differently as it is a neat little starter system for first timers. This is the perspective of the different viewpoints. However and whatever it is no excuse for potentially libellous statements to be made by anybody.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gordon H]

QUOTE (Gary @ 18 Dec 2006, 10:42) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>One reason why the internet community as a whole is currently getting more feedback on Hornby digital everywhere than on any other digital system right now is that it seems to be selling very well with plenty of users.
More to the point, the main reason why so many people are talking about it now is that the information available up until recently has been (at best) incomplete and open to interpretation. With many people now able to try it out for themselves, some of this confusion is starting to wane and facts starting to emerge.

QUOTE There are a very small number here who say claim the Hornby system is "junk" compared to their own current set up and who have not actually used the system. Those who are actual first time users probably view things entirely differently as it is a neat little starter system for first timers. This is the perspective of the different viewpoints. However and whatever it is no excuse for potentially libellous statements to be made by anybody.
It is only natural that anyone who has used a DCC system before will have certain expectations of what any new contender should be capable of - and the ease of actually doing it.
I saw at Warley the difficulty that was being experienced using the Select to control a loco fitted with a sound decoder due to the cumbersome way function toggling has been implemented on that controller. First timers will not even think of this when buying their train set, but they ought to have that information available to them through those who realise the impact of such limitations, before they part with their hard earned cash.
Clearly the comment of complete incompatibility is nonsense, but Hornby didn't help themselves by making the true nature of their chosen implementation known in advance. Most of the wording I have seen regarding compatibility seems to be written with a view to future NMRA compliance testing, i.e. they can't actually claim compliance yet because nothing has been formally tested against the requirements of the NMRA. This does not mean it won't work - it just hasn't been proven officially.