s88 shuttle units for use with the ECoS?
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QUOTE (Puzzler @ 2 Sep 2008, 11:19) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi all..
Please does anyone know who makes the best s88 shuttle units for use with the ECoS? I find it very strange that ESU doesn't make them for their own ECoS..
Paul..
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There are several manufacturers of S88 modules already, so I suspect ECoS themselves don't see the need.
Anyway, S88 modules are not shuttle units in themselves. All they do is act as a set of train detection inputs, with the ECoS itself doing the shuttling part based on the train position information. As such, an S88 module can use any train detection method - reed switches, current detection, optical detection etc. The ECoS simply reads the attached S88 module(s) as a set of 'Ons' and 'Offs', usually in blocks of eight.
Please does anyone know who makes the best s88 shuttle units for use with the ECoS? I find it very strange that ESU doesn't make them for their own ECoS..
Paul..
There are several manufacturers of S88 modules already, so I suspect ECoS themselves don't see the need.
Anyway, S88 modules are not shuttle units in themselves. All they do is act as a set of train detection inputs, with the ECoS itself doing the shuttling part based on the train position information. As such, an S88 module can use any train detection method - reed switches, current detection, optical detection etc. The ECoS simply reads the attached S88 module(s) as a set of 'Ons' and 'Offs', usually in blocks of eight.
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Check out Neil Wood's blog entry - "Adventures in S88 land". In fact if there's anything you want to know about the ECoS, check out Neil's blog because he has almost certainly tried it. ESU ought to put him on commission
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David
David
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the LDT unit uses current detection, I want an S88 unit that uses infra red, sine I need to detect whether the whole train is still in section and not just the loco.
I agree totally about Neil being the resident expert, his blog has beeb very useful
I agree totally about Neil being the resident expert, his blog has beeb very useful
Joined
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7,397 Posts
My Blog entry is fairly comprehensive so I'll just say that the LDT RM GB 8 is your best bet. I have used them for over a year and have found them pretty reliable.
QUOTE (neil_s_wood @ 2 Sep 2008, 22:04) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>My Blog entry is fairly comprehensive so I'll just say that the LDT RM GB 8 is your best bet. I have used them for over a year and have found them pretty reliable.
Thank you Neil - I will read through your instructions and see if I can do it???
Regards
Paul..
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Thank you Neil - I will read through your instructions and see if I can do it???
Regards
Paul..
Joined
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750 Posts
Neil,
I've been reading your blog, very useful and interesting!!
I'm not really interested in PC control, but was looking at a way of doing it, just for the fun of it.
I'm using the Hornby Elite so the only way for this to work was to set up a separate S88 Feedback bus.
The way I thought of doing it was to use the LDT RM-GB-8-B feedback/occupancy detectors connected back into the HSI-88-USB PC interface.
This way the S88's and interface would handle all of the occupancy detection and feedback into the PC, the software would then use this and send the required instructions to the Elite.
The software would have to be RR&CO, but still need to see if it will allow one type of controller to be used as the 'output' and a separate feedback system used as the 'input'
I've not really played about too much with the software but I assume when setting up a block section this will do about the same as what the ECoS does and ask for which module is used and which port on that module the block section is connected to.
Mmm, it's nice to know these feedback modules with intergrated occupancy detection seem to work and are reliable!
Cheers
I've been reading your blog, very useful and interesting!!
I'm not really interested in PC control, but was looking at a way of doing it, just for the fun of it.
I'm using the Hornby Elite so the only way for this to work was to set up a separate S88 Feedback bus.
The way I thought of doing it was to use the LDT RM-GB-8-B feedback/occupancy detectors connected back into the HSI-88-USB PC interface.
This way the S88's and interface would handle all of the occupancy detection and feedback into the PC, the software would then use this and send the required instructions to the Elite.
The software would have to be RR&CO, but still need to see if it will allow one type of controller to be used as the 'output' and a separate feedback system used as the 'input'
I've not really played about too much with the software but I assume when setting up a block section this will do about the same as what the ECoS does and ask for which module is used and which port on that module the block section is connected to.
Mmm, it's nice to know these feedback modules with intergrated occupancy detection seem to work and are reliable!
Cheers
Joined
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10,008 Posts
QUOTE The software would have to be RR&CO, but still need to see if it will allow one type of controller to be used as the 'output' and a separate feedback system used as the 'input'
Since there are so many different feedback systems, it is likely that the RR&Co software has been designed to accept separate control and feedback systems but you would need to check first. As the S88 originates from a choice by Maeklin and RR&Co is a German company, I would have thought the odds were good.
David
Since there are so many different feedback systems, it is likely that the RR&Co software has been designed to accept separate control and feedback systems but you would need to check first. As the S88 originates from a choice by Maeklin and RR&Co is a German company, I would have thought the odds were good.
David
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750 Posts
David,
I have downloaded RR&CO and had a play about with it, it will indeed allow one control system to operate locos and switches while another system is used for feedback!
Looking good, just need to see what the bronze version of RR&CO leaves out.
All I want is to show a very simple automatic layout control, so I only need a basic system.
For my little N-gauge layout I would need two RM-GB-8 these have built in occupnacy detectors, something else that you don't need then! these are 59.90 Euros each.
The HSI-88-USB PC interface is 124.90 Euro
On top of that is the price of RR&CO and your existing controller.
Also having been to Digitrains today Chris allowed me to have a few hours playing with the Viessmann Commander.
Wow!!
It's alot of money, but it's almost the same as having a palm laptop with RR&CO built in, you can program it for routes. With in these routes you set the start point end point, what speed you want the loco to run at, lights to be turned on at specific sections, along with sounds to be started up etc.
The CV set-up is all boxes, just enter a value, the speed curve is actually a graph that you can set!
There is alos a test screen to see what the speed profile looks like when you run your loco
You still need the block/occupancy detectors, but it has the built in S88 interface, You may get away with not requiring RR&CO as well, because of the level of functionality built into the Commander.
The instructions are supposed to come on the CD rom........Nope not there!
The English quick start manual is very limited, this was on the PC so didn't have it to hand.
I just pressed buttons to see what would happen, best way to learn!!
It really needs to be connected to a little demo layout with block detectors so that routes can be set up, just so you can see exactly what it can do.
The layout editor does look quite simple to set-up, everything is colour icons.
You would need the full English manual and lock yourself away for a week so you could be fully conversant with it, there is that much to learn.
I know it's a little off topic but Puzzler has asked about the Viessmann before.
Cheers
I have downloaded RR&CO and had a play about with it, it will indeed allow one control system to operate locos and switches while another system is used for feedback!
Looking good, just need to see what the bronze version of RR&CO leaves out.
All I want is to show a very simple automatic layout control, so I only need a basic system.
For my little N-gauge layout I would need two RM-GB-8 these have built in occupnacy detectors, something else that you don't need then! these are 59.90 Euros each.
The HSI-88-USB PC interface is 124.90 Euro
On top of that is the price of RR&CO and your existing controller.
Also having been to Digitrains today Chris allowed me to have a few hours playing with the Viessmann Commander.
Wow!!
It's alot of money, but it's almost the same as having a palm laptop with RR&CO built in, you can program it for routes. With in these routes you set the start point end point, what speed you want the loco to run at, lights to be turned on at specific sections, along with sounds to be started up etc.
The CV set-up is all boxes, just enter a value, the speed curve is actually a graph that you can set!
There is alos a test screen to see what the speed profile looks like when you run your loco
You still need the block/occupancy detectors, but it has the built in S88 interface, You may get away with not requiring RR&CO as well, because of the level of functionality built into the Commander.
The instructions are supposed to come on the CD rom........Nope not there!
The English quick start manual is very limited, this was on the PC so didn't have it to hand.
I just pressed buttons to see what would happen, best way to learn!!
It really needs to be connected to a little demo layout with block detectors so that routes can be set up, just so you can see exactly what it can do.
The layout editor does look quite simple to set-up, everything is colour icons.
You would need the full English manual and lock yourself away for a week so you could be fully conversant with it, there is that much to learn.
I know it's a little off topic but Puzzler has asked about the Viessmann before.
Cheers
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7,397 Posts
Thanks Ian.
Nice to hear a bit more about the Viessmann commander. New systems are getting better all the time. Once the time comes to replace my ECoS there will probably be a new generation of controllers which takes things even further.
Nice to hear a bit more about the Viessmann commander. New systems are getting better all the time. Once the time comes to replace my ECoS there will probably be a new generation of controllers which takes things even further.
Joined
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18 Posts
QUOTE (neil_s_wood @ 2 Sep 2008, 22:04) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>My Blog entry is fairly comprehensive so I'll just say that the LDT RM GB 8 is your best bet. I have used them for over a year and have found them pretty reliable.
Hello Neil.. Do you think your instructions on the s88 shuttle units will apply for the Viessmann Commander?
CW..
Hello Neil.. Do you think your instructions on the s88 shuttle units will apply for the Viessmann Commander?
CW..
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750 Posts
Crackedwheel,
The Viessmann Commander does have a S88 interface built in.
When I looked at the setting-up page of the inputs/outputs and feedback, everything listed was for Viessmann, so it listed the Viessmann feedback units that Neil also used.
Again it lists 8 input versions and 16 input versions.
I have no idea if you can install the LDT type, or if by selecting the 8 input Viessmann type this would actually work with the LDT ones.
It does show you a picture of a feedback module where you click the input to associate it with a part of the track though.
AS it can use the S88 bus I would assume that any S88 feedback unit should work, but not too sure.
The quick start guide is exactly that!
You really need to contact Viessmann direct and ask these sorts of questions unless you can read German in which case ask Viessmann to send you a PDF copy of the full manual.
Nobody I believe owns one on here as yet so it's difficult for anybody to answer any questions never mind technical ones about it.
I have played about with one for a few hours, and managed to run two locos and operate the functions, but couldn't understand how to save the loco in the data base or put them into a certain order.
I sorted out how to calibrate the touch screen and joystick, as one side of the screen the touch screen buttons didn't work!
I did manage to find my way through the different menus, God only knows what they all do though!
Not done anything with the layout diagram, it looks easy to put one in.......it's even easier to remove one
![]()
no warning, but if you press the red cross the track diagram has gone ooops! You then have to assign addresses to the turnouts and assign the block section addresses as well.
None of this is covered very well or in any great depth in the quick start guide, so its going to be a huge learning curve for the first person to buy one in the UK!
Plus many emails I think!
As the system is so new and gaugemasters(importers) have a price of £750 I don't think many will actually be buying one!!
Although if you order direct from the Lokshop, you should be able to get one for less than £500
Sorry I can't help more.
I did buy the LDT RM-GB-8-B S88 feedback modules with built in occupancy detection, Chris has the kit ones and ready assembled ones at Digitrains.
Very straight forward to build, you will need to go to the web site and download the English manuals though, as they only come with German ones.
You can save yourself over £10 just by soldering a few parts to a PCB!!
Cheers
The Viessmann Commander does have a S88 interface built in.
When I looked at the setting-up page of the inputs/outputs and feedback, everything listed was for Viessmann, so it listed the Viessmann feedback units that Neil also used.
Again it lists 8 input versions and 16 input versions.
I have no idea if you can install the LDT type, or if by selecting the 8 input Viessmann type this would actually work with the LDT ones.
It does show you a picture of a feedback module where you click the input to associate it with a part of the track though.
AS it can use the S88 bus I would assume that any S88 feedback unit should work, but not too sure.
The quick start guide is exactly that!
You really need to contact Viessmann direct and ask these sorts of questions unless you can read German in which case ask Viessmann to send you a PDF copy of the full manual.
Nobody I believe owns one on here as yet so it's difficult for anybody to answer any questions never mind technical ones about it.
I have played about with one for a few hours, and managed to run two locos and operate the functions, but couldn't understand how to save the loco in the data base or put them into a certain order.
I sorted out how to calibrate the touch screen and joystick, as one side of the screen the touch screen buttons didn't work!
I did manage to find my way through the different menus, God only knows what they all do though!
Not done anything with the layout diagram, it looks easy to put one in.......it's even easier to remove one
None of this is covered very well or in any great depth in the quick start guide, so its going to be a huge learning curve for the first person to buy one in the UK!
Plus many emails I think!
As the system is so new and gaugemasters(importers) have a price of £750 I don't think many will actually be buying one!!
Although if you order direct from the Lokshop, you should be able to get one for less than £500
Sorry I can't help more.
I did buy the LDT RM-GB-8-B S88 feedback modules with built in occupancy detection, Chris has the kit ones and ready assembled ones at Digitrains.
Very straight forward to build, you will need to go to the web site and download the English manuals though, as they only come with German ones.
You can save yourself over £10 just by soldering a few parts to a PCB!!
Cheers
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18 Posts
QUOTE (wiggy25 @ 5 Sep 2008, 15:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Crackedwheel,
The Viessmann Commander does have a S88 interface built in.
When I looked at the setting-up page of the inputs/outputs and feedback, everything listed was for Viessmann, so it listed the Viessmann feedback units that Neil also used.
Again it lists 8 input versions and 16 input versions.
I have no idea if you can install the LDT type, or if by selecting the 8 input Viessmann type this would actually work with the LDT ones.
It does show you a picture of a feedback module where you click the input to associate it with a part of the track though.
AS it can use the S88 bus I would assume that any S88 feedback unit should work, but not too sure.
The quick start guide is exactly that!
You really need to contact Viessmann direct and ask these sorts of questions unless you can read German in which case ask Viessmann to send you a PDF copy of the full manual.
Nobody I believe owns one on here as yet so it's difficult for anybody to answer any questions never mind technical ones about it.
I have played about with one for a few hours, and managed to run two locos and operate the functions, but couldn't understand how to save the loco in the data base or put them into a certain order.
I sorted out how to calibrate the touch screen and joystick, as one side of the screen the touch screen buttons didn't work!
I did manage to find my way through the different menus, God only knows what they all do though!
Not done anything with the layout diagram, it looks easy to put one in.......it's even easier to remove one
![]()
no warning, but if you press the red cross the track diagram has gone ooops! You then have to assign addresses to the turnouts and assign the block section addresses as well.
None of this is covered very well or in any great depth in the quick start guide, so its going to be a huge learning curve for the first person to buy one in the UK!
Plus many emails I think!
As the system is so new and gaugemasters(importers) have a price of £750 I don't think many will actually be buying one!!
Although if you order direct from the Lokshop, you should be able to get one for less than £500
Sorry I can't help more.
I did buy the LDT RM-GB-8-B S88 feedback modules with built in occupancy detection, Chris has the kit ones and ready assembled ones at Digitrains.
Very straight forward to build, you will need to go to the web site and download the English manuals though, as they only come with German ones.
You can save yourself over £10 just by soldering a few parts to a PCB!!
Cheers
Hi.. but I have one! I got mine for £540 from my local shop, OK I am friends with the owner so got a special discount, the downside at the moment is the manual on DVD is in German, and the English quick start version is to skimpy, but I have been told there will soon be an English DVD & paper instructions in English.
The GBS should also be out soon, can't wait, that's looking really exciting, just hope it's not too over the top on price.
I haven't had that much time to look at everything yet, as their is so much, but soon the nights will be getting darker and I will have more time to investigate this box of tricks.
CW
The Viessmann Commander does have a S88 interface built in.
When I looked at the setting-up page of the inputs/outputs and feedback, everything listed was for Viessmann, so it listed the Viessmann feedback units that Neil also used.
Again it lists 8 input versions and 16 input versions.
I have no idea if you can install the LDT type, or if by selecting the 8 input Viessmann type this would actually work with the LDT ones.
It does show you a picture of a feedback module where you click the input to associate it with a part of the track though.
AS it can use the S88 bus I would assume that any S88 feedback unit should work, but not too sure.
The quick start guide is exactly that!
You really need to contact Viessmann direct and ask these sorts of questions unless you can read German in which case ask Viessmann to send you a PDF copy of the full manual.
Nobody I believe owns one on here as yet so it's difficult for anybody to answer any questions never mind technical ones about it.
I have played about with one for a few hours, and managed to run two locos and operate the functions, but couldn't understand how to save the loco in the data base or put them into a certain order.
I sorted out how to calibrate the touch screen and joystick, as one side of the screen the touch screen buttons didn't work!
I did manage to find my way through the different menus, God only knows what they all do though!
Not done anything with the layout diagram, it looks easy to put one in.......it's even easier to remove one
None of this is covered very well or in any great depth in the quick start guide, so its going to be a huge learning curve for the first person to buy one in the UK!
Plus many emails I think!
As the system is so new and gaugemasters(importers) have a price of £750 I don't think many will actually be buying one!!
Although if you order direct from the Lokshop, you should be able to get one for less than £500
Sorry I can't help more.
I did buy the LDT RM-GB-8-B S88 feedback modules with built in occupancy detection, Chris has the kit ones and ready assembled ones at Digitrains.
Very straight forward to build, you will need to go to the web site and download the English manuals though, as they only come with German ones.
You can save yourself over £10 just by soldering a few parts to a PCB!!
Cheers
Hi.. but I have one! I got mine for £540 from my local shop, OK I am friends with the owner so got a special discount, the downside at the moment is the manual on DVD is in German, and the English quick start version is to skimpy, but I have been told there will soon be an English DVD & paper instructions in English.
The GBS should also be out soon, can't wait, that's looking really exciting, just hope it's not too over the top on price.
I haven't had that much time to look at everything yet, as their is so much, but soon the nights will be getting darker and I will have more time to investigate this box of tricks.
CW
Joined
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7,397 Posts
QUOTE (Crackedwheel @ 5 Sep 2008, 23:54) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hello Neil.. Do you think your instructions on the s88 shuttle units will apply for the Viessmann Commander?
CW..
Hi CW,
I have no experience with the Viessmann commander so I couldn't say. The principle will be the same however it is the connections and how these are entered into the system that will be different.
cheers
Neil
CW..
Hi CW,
I have no experience with the Viessmann commander so I couldn't say. The principle will be the same however it is the connections and how these are entered into the system that will be different.
cheers
Neil
Joined
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1,611 Posts
well our friends at the House of Marklin are producing some details of their new controller.
One very interesting feature, although details are sketchy to say the least is that it will have the ability to replicate speed curves for chips that do do have this feature. Could be a useful function for locomotives with chips that do not have this feature.
Definately an exciting time at the moment for DCC improvements.
John
One very interesting feature, although details are sketchy to say the least is that it will have the ability to replicate speed curves for chips that do do have this feature. Could be a useful function for locomotives with chips that do not have this feature.
Definately an exciting time at the moment for DCC improvements.
John
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