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DT
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·


I found a South African Railways Class 15F Blueprint on eBay Something nice to frame. Quite big though at 1" to the foot.

SAR Class 15F 4-8-2
Introduced to Service :- 1938
Builders :- North British, Beyer Peacock, Henschel and Schwartzkopf.
Class Total :- 255 Locomotives
SAR Running Numbers :- 2902 to 3156
Weight Loco :- 113 tons
Weight Tender :- 69 tons (or 107 tons type EW)
Cylinders (2) :- 24 x 28 inches
Boiler Pressure :- 210 lbs per sq inch
Driving Wheels :- 5' 0" Diameter
Tractive Effort (85%) :- 47,980 lbs.
Valve Gear :- Walschaerts



So where can I get a model of one of these locos? DJH don't make one unfortunately. Anyone have an idea?
 

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I've no idea where you might get a model, time to scratchbuild
?, but I did want to say congratulations on your "win". Nice one


David
 

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DT
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Apparently Keyser built one. They went out of business and the moulds became NuCast. Now where do I find one?

I hear that A Bachmann or IHC 4-8-2 chassis will make the model better.
 

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Hi Doug

Congratulations on acquiring a blueprint of an SAR 15 F. I had the privilege riding on the footplate of a 15F some years ago -- an awesome experience!

There is, to the best of my knowledge, only one professional model locomotive builder in South Africa. His name is Bruce Green and he can be contacted at [email protected] . Some of his work may be seen at www.sa-transport.co.za He is an outstanding modeller and offers both kit built and scratch built models at competitive prices (usual disclaimer)

The most important question to decide is whether you want to build the locomotive to run on 12 mm gauge (equivalent to 3'6" gauge in 3.5 mm scale) or 16.5 mm gauge. If compatability is important you will probably go for the latter. Obviously 12 mm scale looks better!

Good luck with your 15 F.

Kind regards

Brian Patterson
 

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DT
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I have the DJH GMAM Garratt to build still. I was keeping it for a rainy day, but may just have to start soon as with age, eyesight and finger co-ordination gets worse.

I don't want to build a SA layout, but I remember these locos from South Africa and we rode many times up and down the country. I think that as my Grandfather was an engineer on the railways, we had a few free trips.

I'm happy with this blue print. Bought for $44. I think it was a good deal. Goes towards making up for loosing an auction on an original, fully illustrated GMAM Garratt builders instruction manual that sold for over 500 Euros a year or two back.
 

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congratuations on your purchase doug.

to the best of my knowlage K's never did one. they did do some continental kits (i have one on the bench at the moment) but not one of these. the continental K's kits were sometimes sold under the Jouef brand!!
To be honest even if they did do one you are probably better off scratch building it.
i could design an etch that would do allot of the work for you as i quite fancy one myself.....

as far as massive loco's go it looks like a fairly simple one. parallel boiler, very few castings. just lots of plumbing.
do you also have end elevations for both loco and the back of the tender?

Nu cast are now owned by a chap that refuses to reproduce the continental kits. he has also put the price of them up to a stupidly high level and now wonders why they dont sell!!!! 9the garret was £125 about 5 years ago when i got mine. now its about £300. its just not worth that much.
its such a sad story. the company was started by people who could see the future of model railways. they provided some really good kits. the son studied injection moulding and went on to produce some very usefull mouldings. quality control was always a bit of a problem though. i wonder what would have happened if they were still going. the packaging was good. the pricing was good. the kits were ok with a bit of work. the chassis were iffy.
if the quality control could have been sorted out i think the wheels would have been ok even by todays standards. the motors were rubbish (plastic bearings on something that gets hot!! -who ever thought of that one!!) i could go on about this for ages... i regard the loss of K's as one of the big losses of railway modelling.

Peter
 

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sure. with my new jig i feel allot more comfortable building chassis! and if you dont mind the gibson wheels i find they are not too expensive to make. the loco has spoked wheels so they shouldnt be difficult to source.

does the blueprint have end elevations or just the side?

Peter

P.S. i have heard you mention the garrett a couple of times. could you wet our appetites with a couple of pictures of the box contents?!!

When i was building the K's garrett i found that nothing was actually very difficult. the difficult part was that there was soo much of it so it took a long time.
 

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QUOTE (pedromorgan @ 29 Sep 2008, 20:29) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Peter

P.S. i have heard you mention the garrett a couple of times. could you wet our appetites with a couple of pictures of the box contents?!!

When i was building the K's garrett i found that nothing was actually very difficult. the difficult part was that there was soo much of it so it took a long time.
That would be interesting. What is in the box?
 

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QUOTE (Doug @ 29 Sep 2008, 11:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I'll look for a chassis and get back to you.
It's got 5' spoked wheels, very closely spaced. It may not be dead right, but using a 9F chassis could be an option as this has 5' drivers and they are near as close as can be got with an RP25 flange; lopping off whichever coupled axle location you don't need as dictated by where the motor is to be positioned in the model. The 'expected soon' Hornby 9F could be a low cost route to this chassis, if it proves mechanically good. The whole loco is likely to cost less than just wheels, motor and gearbox if going the kit built motorised chassis route; and you will have a popular loco body and tender to sell on to someone who would like to dress up their old 9F as 'Evening Star' to further knock the price down.
 

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QUOTE (Doug @ 28 Sep 2008, 11:55) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I found a South African Railways Class 15F Blueprint on eBay Something nice to frame. Quite big though at 1" to the foot.

SAR Class 15F 4-8-2
Introduced to Service :- 1938
Builders :- North British, Beyer Peacock, Henschel and Schwartzkopf.
Class Total :- 255 Locomotives
SAR Running Numbers :- 2902 to 3156
Weight Loco :- 113 tons
Weight Tender :- 69 tons (or 107 tons type EW)
Cylinders (2) :- 24 x 28 inches
Boiler Pressure :- 210 lbs per sq inch
Driving Wheels :- 5' 0" Diameter
Tractive Effort (85%) :- 47,980 lbs.
Valve Gear :- Walschaerts



So where can I get a model of one of these locos? DJH don't make one unfortunately. Anyone have an idea?

Hi Doug
I am new to this group and was just looking through the internet for South African Railway locos when I came across your letter regarding 15Fs. Believe it or not I have a whole layout in mainly HO gauge of many SAR steam locomotives. Unfortunatly the Ks kit of the 15F was made to OO gauge and is therefor slightly larger than the DJH SAR models. At present I have 4 X 15Fs (2x00 gauge Ks kits, 1x scratch and 1 3.5" gauge live steam)
The other DJH models are a class 23 that is very much like the 15F but had slightly larger wheels and a larger tender. Once the 23s were withdrawn many of the 15Fs were fitted with the longer tenders. At present I have 2x HO gauge DJH class 23s and a 5" gauge live steam loco. This beast is just over 12ft in length and is over half a ton in weight.
The next SAR locos that DJH produced is a 4-8-2 +2-8-4 class GMAM garratt (4X) Class 19D 4-8-2 tender loco (X2) Class 6J 4-6-0 tender loco and a 4-8-2+2-8-4 GCA garratt to which I have non.
I worked as a fireman on SAR and spent many hours in the cabs of 15Fs. They were fantastic machines and just about always done what the crew wanted them to do. However now and again they could make a firemans life hell on the footplate. With a massive firegrate of 63 sq ft to hand feed and cheap SA coal being burnt it really would make one work. I remember working an express of 19 coaches with a poor steaming 15F and a driver who could not care about the fireman or anything going on around him so long as the wheels were turning. In about 100miles I had shoveled every bit of coal (all 14 tons of it) from the tender and into the firebox and that was in under three hours with two stops. That was the hardest days work ever for me.
Anyway enough of that. I have put a number of my live steam SAR videos on Youtube under LifeofRail if you are interested or simply key in South African Railways.
Regards
Richard
 

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DT
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hi Richard, welcome to the forum and thanks for posting.

Are you still in SA?

My family has a little SA railway history going back three generations. See my blog here.

I'm happily building a DJH GMAM Garratt. I'd love to find a 15F and / or 19D loco to go with it. I have this engineering drawing and another of a 19D.

I'll look for your Steam videos.

Cheers,
Doug
 

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QUOTE (Doug @ 27 Dec 2008, 23:36) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi Richard, welcome to the forum and thanks for posting.

Are you still in SA?

My family has a little SA railway history going back three generations. See my blog here.

I'm happily building a DJH GMAM Garratt. I'd love to find a 15F and / or 19D loco to go with it. I have this engineering drawing and another of a 19D.

I'll look for your Steam videos.

Cheers,
Doug
Hi Doug
I am now back living in Scotland where believe it or not we have just brought a full size 15F back to Glasgow. She is a bit rusty but we are fixing her up slowly. Building those GMAMs is a right pain. I have built all four of mine and never again. The worst models of all to build and get running were those class 15F Ks kits. They were really terrible. The garretts once built normally run a treat. I may put some of my SAR layout on Youtube if I ever get time. Poor HO trains feel a bit left out now as all my time is spent in my workshop on my live steamers.
Catch you later
Cheers
Richard
 

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DT
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A link to Richard's videos here: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Lifeof...amp;view=videos

I have nostalgic memories as a kid: collecting mud prawns for bait next to the railway bridge on Knysna lagoon, watching the steam locos go by.

Some great videos there. The 5" gauge SAR Class 23 looks fantastic. I'll make a plan to come and see it sometime as well as your big 15F.

Good luck with that and let us know how the project progresses.
 

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In the 80's Continental or Railway Modeller ran a series of articles on the SAR by a well known modeller, he described the building of SAR rolling stock and his layout was featured.

I cannot remember much more except it was before Andrew Burnham took over the editor's job. Does this ring any bells?

Tim
 

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When this thread was first posted i went through CM and found anything SAR related that i thought might be interesting.

SAR 25NC CM march 99
The new Blue train CM Jan 99
SAR royal train "white train" (1947 set) CM June 2003
Red Devil June 2001
SAR Private saloons Dec 2003

Hope these are of use to someone. i was quietly planning a kit of the 25. but its definatly a long term project.

Regards

Peter
 

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Doug
That wonderful old line to Knysna was my very last stamping grounds in 1996. After working the mighty class 25NCs 4-8-4s on the Kimberley to De Aar main I found firing steam on the Knysna branch rather boring. The line was fantastic but speeds and loads were slow making it so easy for any fireman. I have some wonderful video footage taken from the footplate of this line and hopefully one day will put it onto Youtube. Unfortunately that wonderful branch is now closed and all the wonderful class 24s and many of the 19Ds are now cut up. So much for them once being preserved. I walked up the line in July when I was over and there by Kaaimans bridge the cliff has fallen and blocked the line.
As for SAR models there is a 2-8-0 American loco made by Frateschi that can be converted into a SAR class 8 very quickly. I have two of the locos on my layout and each was converted within a day each. The other loco I scratch built many years ago was the Red Devil simply because I loved working that loco.
One of the best SAR models ever produced was a S scale class 19D. I have one and it is over 12" long with its vanderbuilt tender and runs a dream. Not sure where you would get one of these nowadays.
If you really want a 15F then there is one for sale on "View Models" web site. But there is a catch, it is a 3.5" gauge live steam and has a price tag of £6500 if I remember correctly. Its an old friends loco from London.
As i'm new to this site is there somewhere we can post photos? If there is then I will put a few of my layout and locos etc.
Cheers for now
Richard
 

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hello richard

welcome to the forum.

as a standard member you will need a third party site to host your pictures (I use photobucket because it works out the forum picture code for you.)

if you are a plus member then you can put them in our own gallery.

here is the guide to posting pictures which you may want to read. once you have done it once its dead easy to do.
http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index...pic=25&st=0

there are sections on this forum for layouts and models. i look forward to seeing some pictures!

Peter
 
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