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Hi Sarah,

I would have siad it was more a "joint" idea LOL !

Look forward to seeing the pics when power permits them to escape from the camera.

Cheers,

Norm

PS. I will take some of the Metcalfe viaduct would be aqueduct mods wip later as well hopefully !
 

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Longfunnelled&tiresome
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I love looking at your posts - the weathered waggons et al.
QUOTE (sarah @ 19 Nov 2012, 20:00) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Following an idea from Norman, today I have been investigating the Tri-ang / Hornby Railways 3 arch Viaduct, to see if it could be used as the basis for a narrow canal aqueduct.
Would you believe that the recess in the "floor" to take the track (Originally that would be Super 4 Track.) is exactly the right size to take a scale 8 Foot Wide Cornflake Packet Card Trough?
Beware of that Norm - he lures everyone into recycling cardboard. I can now keep the top of my thumb in a matcbox as a result...
(though I exaggerate a tad)

QUOTE The Trough in the centre leaves a suitable "Towpath" width on either side, though only one side will be used as such, with railings, the other side being paved, and with no railing, as at Chirk Aqueduct.
The short section I made inspired be to go for a full length "conversion".
Pics are still in the camera at the moment.
I love that Chirk pair Have you seen this dramatic Google maps satellite view?:


mebbe you can go on and model the Glyn Valley tramway news item here that passes underneath.

The really scary handrail just oneside is across the Pont Cysllte as shown above. I think that cross section is fascinating because it allows the displaced water to recirculate betow the towpath.
When I crossed both aqueducts on a horseboat the horse had no probs with Chirk but balked at Pont C saying it had no head for heights. While the owner had walk it down and across the packhorse bridge, we had to pull the boat across ourselves, taking turns to rest on the other side, swinging our legs out in space and looking right down onto the top of a cricket match way below.

LF&T
 

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Hi Sarah,

That hornby viaduct was really a great fit for the canal, & cornflakes box does an ideal job. Looking really good. What are you thinking of modelling the water in / with ?

I have now added a couple of test bits of timber as toepaths on each side of the central waterway, at the moment given the 100mm overall width of the kit, I just through the size of the timber have split it into a 40mm channel with two 30mm toe paths. But think I may reduce one toe path by 15mm or so & add this to the channel / canal width - would this stack up dims wise to the real thing ? As a model I think in my un educated waterways mind, it would not look too bad LOL !! A wip pic below;

Rectangle Wood Flooring Floor Urban design


Look forward to seeing yours progress, Cheers,

Norm
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
QUOTE (Long funnel & tiresome @ 20 Nov 2012, 12:41) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I love looking at your posts - the weathered waggons et al.

Beware of that Norm - he lures everyone into recycling cardboard. I can now keep the top of my thumb in a matcbox as a result...
(though I exaggerate a tad)

I love that Chirk pair Have you seen this dramatic Google maps satellite view?:


mebbe you can go on and model the Glyn Valley tramway news item here that passes underneath.

The really scary handrail just oneside is across the Pont Cysllte as shown above. I think that cross section is fascinating because it allows the displaced water to recirculate betow the towpath.
When I crossed both aqueducts on a horseboat the horse had no probs with Chirk but balked at Pont C saying it had no head for heights. While the owner had walk it down and across the packhorse bridge, we had to pull the boat across ourselves, taking turns to rest on the other side, swinging our legs out in space and looking right down onto the top of a cricket match way below.

LF&T

Nice pics. Was that horse boat the "Pamela" by any chance?

The Aqueduct at Ffrwd (The model one!) is basically one span of the Pontcysllte Aqueduct (45 Feet Span) with a shorter span over the road.



All this talk of Aqueducts has inspired me to at long last put the rest of the girderwork in place on the Ffrwd Aqueduct.











The Trough is 11Feet wide, with the Towpath built on top of a "girder" structure. The result is that the flow of water tends to pull the boat towards the towpath.

There are holes in the top flange of the "outside". These were for the "missing" hand-rail, which was not fitted to save some money it seems.

Chirk was originally just an Iron Base Plate, but at some point Iron Sides were added to make a trough. There isn't as much space for the water flow, and boats are slower going up towards the tunnel and Trefor.

QUOTE (Campaman @ 20 Nov 2012, 12:49) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Having read this thread and seen your tunrtable, it made me immediately think of this:

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2799624

Yes, the Minehead Turntable. It has the "curved" Girders, as did the Table at Paddington. I don't know which Turntable Airfix based the kit on. Does anybody know?
 

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Hi Sarah,

Thats a great 1st pic of your aquaduct - which Narrow / Canal boat model was that; the fly sheets / tarpauins are Fellows Morton & Clayton ? After my time in Notts know that outlet well LOL !

Another question, you know me, how did you finish / mask the viewed end of the aqueduct - mine will be the 1st view of the layout ?

Mind that LF&T's comments, I was informed its all about getting his hands out of the box - but its only a rumour LOL !!!!

Cheers,

Norm
 

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QUOTE (sarah @ 21 Nov 2012, 19:57) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Nice pics. Was that horse boat the "Pamela" by any chance?
That rings a bell, but our loveable ground hugging horse will have long gone off to the great grasslands in the sky
QUOTE The Aqueduct at Ffrwd (The model one!) is basically one span of the Pontcysllte Aqueduct (45 Feet Span) with a shorter span over the road.
All this talk of Aqueducts has inspired me to at long last put the rest of the girderwork in place on the Ffrwd Aqueduct.

that Telford structure is such an impressive demo of your scratch building skills - with recycled cardboard that even recycling King Norm couldn't smell out when right side up.

QUOTE The Trough is 11Feet wide, with the Towpath built on top of a "girder" structure. The result is that the flow of water tends to pull the boat towards the towpath.
There are holes in the top flange of the "outside". These were for the "missing" hand-rail, which was not fitted to save some money it seems.
Chirk was originally just an Iron Base Plate, but at some point Iron Sides were added to make a trough. There isn't as much space for the water flow, and boats are slower going up towards the tunnel and Trefor.
Most interesting. I remember now something that struck me at the time: how did Telford deal with the possibility of ice fracturing the cast iron trough on Pont Cysllte? Do they just have to make sure to keep ice broken up all the time with an ice breaker boat?
LF&T
 

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QUOTE (Norman Byrne @ 21 Nov 2012, 10:44) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi Sarah,

That hornby viaduct was really a great fit for the canal, & cornflakes box does an ideal job. Looking really good. What are you thinking of modelling the water in / with ?

I have now added a couple of test bits of timber as toepaths on each side of the central waterway, at the moment given the 100mm overall width of the kit, I just through the size of the timber have split it into a 40mm channel with two 30mm toe paths. But think I may reduce one toe path by 15mm or so & add this to the channel / canal width - would this stack up dims wise to the real thing ? As a model I think in my un educated waterways mind, it would not look too bad LOL !! A wip pic below;

View attachment 3560

Look forward to seeing yours progress, Cheers,

Norm

With 100mm width to play with, it may be possible to have a "wide" canal Aqueduct. That is a channel width of a scale 14 Feet 6 Inches to 15 Feet.

15 Feet would be 60mm, so it is a definate possibility. The Towing Path would be on one side, again, with the other paved but unused.

That would open up the possibility of a fictional branch off, or a location on, the Grand Union Canal, London to Birmingham via Watford Gap, Leamington Spa, Warwick, and Knowle. Some of that is possible GWR territory as well....

Your low level basin could be a branch of the "main" canal, dropping through locks that are not modelled. See Hazlehurst Junction on the Caldon Canal (Trent & Mersey Canal Branch.)

http://www.churnet.co.uk/caldoncanal.php

Some Canal and Railway photos here!

http://www.luphen.org.uk/public/2010/caldoncanal1.htm

The water in my canal(s) is just a plain piece of card, painted brownish, and to be gloss varnished. A Water Line model can then just be placed on top, or for a more permanent result, glued down and varnished around.
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
QUOTE (Long funnel & tiresome @ 21 Nov 2012, 22:09) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>That rings a bell, but our loveable ground hugging horse will have long gone off to the great grasslands in the sky

that Telford structure is such an impressive demo of your scratch building skills - with recycled cardboard that even recycling King Norm couldn't smell out when right side up.

Most interesting. I remember now something that struck me at the time: how did Telford deal with the possibility of ice fracturing the cast iron trough on Pont Cysllte? Do they just have to make sure to keep ice broken up all the time with an ice breaker boat?
LF&T

The "Hostlel Boat" Pamela was a horse drawn passenger boat that for a time worked as a sort of floating Youth Hostel. I believe she did trips up to Llangollen. Yes, this was some time ago. The last time I saw the Pamela was back in the later 1980s, with a wooden motor boat named Avon. Harry Ashcroft had them then.

My first Aqueduct model was in 12mm to 1 Foot scale, and I worked from the Telford drawings(!). This was also Cornflake Card. Now scrapped, the 4mm model was based on the earlier research. This one is not 100 percent "correct" though.

The water on the Aqueduct does not freeze too often, as there is a significient current...
 

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Hi Sarah,

Thanks once again for more excellent canal / waterways info. your knowledge never ceases to astound me !!! The links are excellent & the photos of your 2010 trip - WOW what a journey / route; must have been your heaven - canals in fantastic condition & steam trains !!!!!!! Some really great pics in particular I loved the Hazle..... aqueduct tunnel shot, with the brickwork on the skew, always a favourite of mine; also the view of the station with the DMU (* could be wrong ther no doubt), but in the station.Also liked a lot of the others; have done a few canal trips, including through the centre, well underneath Brum - very odd & imensley enjoyable trips.

Our minds have been maybe taking a similar route in terms of viaduct to canal basin; mine just in principle, yours in detail. But like the sound of the wide acqueduct channel 15ft / 60mm option, & an off "camera transfer from the high level viaduct into the basin. I have discovered a Langley Models Lock Gates kit in my boxes;

Brown Rectangle Font Box Wood


.... this maybe could form the entry into the basin at low level; with a bit of work. So the plan might be forming LOL !!!!

I also have done a bit of searching for narrow boats / canal boats & othe suitable craft; & at the moment am leaning towards the Langley kits (* but they are white metal - would be a new venture for me !!!!!) for all ie Viaduct / Aqueduct & a couple of different models inc. maybe a tug in the basin; but these without covers to be being loaded, or that sort of thing in the basin, or the Mountford Covered Barge for the Aqueduct - which looks similar to your FM&C boat. So I think a plan is coming together, thanks in the main part to your boundless knowledge - which again is very much appreciated.

Anyway enough of my ramblings, I still think your "Iron Bridge" model (* with the cornflake boxes - of course I didn't spot them - LF&T LOL !!!!), was another great example of your scratch building skills. Are you intending to find a home for the latest hornby viaduct / aqueduct on your layout - hope so ?

Thanks again, will put an update on my loft layout (** stop clogging up your thread - soz !!!!!), over the weekend, of the bits starting to be put onto the layout hopefully. No doubt will also be back with more questions before or after LOL !!!!! Cheers,

Norm
 

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QUOTE (Norman Byrne @ 21 Nov 2012, 20:22) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi Sarah,

Thats a great 1st pic of your aquaduct - which Narrow / Canal boat model was that; the fly sheets / tarpauins are Fellows Morton & Clayton ? After my time in Notts know that outlet well LOL !

Another question, you know me, how did you finish / mask the viewed end of the aqueduct - mine will be the 1st view of the layout ?

Mind that LF&T's comments, I was informed its all about getting his hands out of the box - but its only a rumour LOL !!!!

Cheers,

Norm

The Narrow Boat model is a detailed and customised "Craftline Models" Balsa Wood kit. It has been around for a while, but I have only very recently dug out the box with some canal bits in.













This boat represents one of the Motor Boats of Fellows, Morton & Clayton Ltd., in the "later" colour scheme. (The full size boat was built in the 1930s.)
FMC were independant traders, and lasted until the Waterways were nationalised. That year they made their first trading loss, and sold out to the BTC, Docks and Inland Waterways Executive, known better as British Waterways. The FMC boats were slowly intergrated and re-painted into BW livery. This model boat must be due for a re-paint soon...

The "end of the Aqueduct" has yet to be constructed, but it will have to be "cut off" at the board edge.

More Canal Boat Kits...

"Craftline Models".

These kits were part of a range of models. They included;

Motor and "Butty" (Unpowered "Trailers") Boats "loaded" with side cloths up.

Motor and "Butty" (Unpowered "Trailers") Boats "loaded" with "Top Cloths" (A triangle of solid balsa!). My boat above was one of the Motor Boat kits.

There were also "Cabin Boats", modern holiday boats. one was a shorter boat, C 40 Feet long I think, another was a longer boat.

Craftline also made Narrow lock gate kits, complete with cast White Metal Paddle gear and wire handrails. Twin Bottom Gates (But without "Gate Paddles" and a Single Top gate. (Some Worcester and Birmingham Canal locks are a bit like this kit.)

Another Craftline model was the "Llangollen Canal" "Dutch Style" Lift Bridge. These crop up on a few model railways, but until very recently, these bridges were a "Welsh Cut" speciallity.

These models are a bit battered, as they have not been stored very well. 2 of the Crafline boats were second hand as well.

"Motor Boat With Side Cloths" (As supplied. Second hand.)







"Butty Boat With Side Cloths" (Detailed and modified model, bashed and missing the rudder.)









"Motor Boat With Top Cloths" (Detailed...)



"Butty Boat With Top Cloths" (As supplied. Second hand.)





 

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More Canal Boat Kits, Part 2

There are a few more interesting kits by Craftline, including a model of the re-created Colliery at the Black Country Museum.

Here are a couple of sorces...

http://www.scalelink.co.uk/acatalog/Craft_...etc__1_76_.html

http://canalcargo.co.uk/acatalog/Models.html

A range of kits, etc. was made by Garth Allan. It seems that the Tewkesbury Model Shop that took over the range does not have much in stock, if any by now.

http://www.garthallan.co.uk/kits.htm

http://www.tewkesbury-toys.demon.co.uk/page62.html

Here are a couple of models from this range...

The kit was the "President", a Preserved Steam Boat, and the Butty Northwich, only suitable as supplied for pre WW1 or Modern Image use.
I have converted the cabin of the Percy Dent (!) to a Motor Boat type, and there I stopped for some time!

The butty is as supplied, with added paint.













Another card model was a Waterline Model of the Samuel Barlow Motor Boat Ian. This seems to have gone out of production, as I cannot find reference to it on the net!

This had layers that could be stuck over some printed detail to give some relief.

Mine has seen better days!

 

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I picked up a couple of cheap models of narrow boats the year we did the Llangollen Canal, in a canal shop along side the Shropshire Union. I didn't pay more than a couple of quid each and the detail was impressive. We started from Stoke on Trent
and did the four counties ring as well as the Llangollen. Pity we had to rush as we only had the boat for two weeks.

The Pontcysyllte Aqueduct is wonderful structure, especially when you cross it in a narrow boat. The bye wash on the Llangollen is the strongest I've ever encountered and makes for an interesting trip. The canal is really a reservoir for the whole of Cheshire and greater Manchester. I like your modelling it's very interesting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
QUOTE (Norman Byrne @ 22 Nov 2012, 21:51) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi Sarah,

Thanks once again for more excellent canal / waterways info. your knowledge never ceases to astound me !!! The links are excellent & the photos of your 2010 trip - WOW what a journey / route; must have been your heaven - canals in fantastic condition & steam trains !!!!!!! Some really great pics in particular I loved the Hazle..... aqueduct tunnel shot, with the brickwork on the skew, always a favourite of mine; also the view of the station with the DMU (* could be wrong ther no doubt), but in the station.Also liked a lot of the others; have done a few canal trips, including through the centre, well underneath Brum - very odd & imensley enjoyable trips.

Our minds have been maybe taking a similar route in terms of viaduct to canal basin; mine just in principle, yours in detail. But like the sound of the wide acqueduct channel 15ft / 60mm option, & an off "camera transfer from the high level viaduct into the basin. I have discovered a Langley Models Lock Gates kit in my boxes;

View attachment 3563

.... this maybe could form the entry into the basin at low level; with a bit of work. So the plan might be forming LOL !!!!

I also have done a bit of searching for narrow boats / canal boats & othe suitable craft; & at the moment am leaning towards the Langley kits (* but they are white metal - would be a new venture for me !!!!!) for all ie Viaduct / Aqueduct & a couple of different models inc. maybe a tug in the basin; but these without covers to be being loaded, or that sort of thing in the basin, or the Mountford Covered Barge for the Aqueduct - which looks similar to your FM&C boat. So I think a plan is coming together, thanks in the main part to your boundless knowledge - which again is very much appreciated.

Anyway enough of my ramblings, I still think your "Iron Bridge" model (* with the cornflake boxes - of course I didn't spot them - LF&T LOL !!!!), was another great example of your scratch building skills. Are you intending to find a home for the latest hornby viaduct / aqueduct on your layout - hope so ?

Thanks again, will put an update on my loft layout (** stop clogging up your thread - soz !!!!!), over the weekend, of the bits starting to be put onto the layout hopefully. No doubt will also be back with more questions before or after LOL !!!!! Cheers,

Norm

The Canals and Railways go together well, hence the Railway and Canal Historical Society.
With relations on the railways, and friends who worked on the Canals, we do have some resources!

I should perhaps point out that the trip photos are not mine! (Funny enough, the Caldon Canal is one bit of the Canal System we haven't been down, yet!)

That Langley kit is well detailed, there are even the Paddle holes in the gates. This kit is for a Wide Lock, 14 Feet or so wide, and would take a "pair" of Narrow Boats (Motor and Butty) side by side, or 1 barge, 14Ft Wide. So, it would fit with the Wide Aqueduct.

"Tugs" were never that common on the Canals. They were mainly used in areas with long lengths with no locks, so that they could tow "trains" of un-powered boats. Most common on the Birmingham Canal Navigations, or BCN, where they towed trains of boats from the collieries to power stations and steelworks. amongst other traffics.

Most Tugs were shorter than the full length narrow boats, 50 and 60 feet not being uncommon, and usually had a back cabin, and a large engine room (Housing a large engine! Some were large lorry engines.), with the rest of the length being secked over.

The Tri-ang Aqueduct is an experimental model....
 

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Hi Sarah,

Thanks for the latest Canal boat info & the links, a couple of which I did have a look at the other day, as always much appreciated. A bit more thinking time methinks, before deciding on the boat fronts, during which I can hopefully get the aqueduct & lock links in place in the loft. Many thanks, Cheers,

Norm
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
QUOTE (Makemineadouble @ 25 Nov 2012, 06:37) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I picked up a couple of cheap models of narrow boats the year we did the Llangollen Canal, in a canal shop along side the Shropshire Union. I didn't pay more than a couple of quid each and the detail was impressive. We started from Stoke on Trent
and did the four counties ring as well as the Llangollen. Pity we had to rush as we only had the boat for two weeks.

The Pontcysyllte Aqueduct is wonderful structure, especially when you cross it in a narrow boat. The bye wash on the Llangollen is the strongest I've ever encountered and makes for an interesting trip. The canal is really a reservoir for the whole of Cheshire and greater Manchester. I like your modelling it's very interesting.


Not a bad run for 2 weeks!


Some of the "Ready Made" models are very good ornaments, but leave a lot to be desired in terms of "accuracy" in dimensions, etc.

These are more akin to the Rovex and Tri-ang "6 Inch" LMS Coaches rather than the Bachmann Mk1 Coaches.

As you said, the "Llangollen Canal",(or the Welsh Branch of the Shropshire Union Canal, or The Ellesmere and Chester Canal, or The Ellesmere Canal) is a feeder to Hurleston Reservoir, near Nantwich. This Reservoir was originally built to feed water into the Chester Canal Summit level (Bunbury Locks to Nantwich.) later the main line of the Shropshire Union Canal.

When the canal system was being run down, the Reservoir was transfered to the Water Authority to provide drinking water, and there is now a large water treatment plant adjacent to the Reservoir.

It supplies mainly the Crewe and Nantwich area.

Several other canal reservoirs were also transfered all over the country....

Now the canal only gets the lockage water from Hurleston Locks, unless the Reservoir is too full, then the extra runs off into the Chester Canal.

A main source of supply to the SUC, as well as the Belvide Reservoir (and also a source for the Staffordshire and Worcestershire Canal) is the large Sewage Treatment Works at Barnhurst, adjacent to the top end of the SUC and the SWC.

I am sorting stuff out again, but will get back to some modelling soon....
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
Crafline Models "Llangollen Canal" Dutch Type Lifting Bridge.

This is a model out of our Canal Stuff Box. It was made some time ago, and I have now done some more work on it, including making a base.

There is a bit of detailing, including changing the wire supplied to connect the bridge deck to the beams with some chain.

Not finished off, but still nice.











Later.....




















 
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