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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My Dear Knowledgable Experts,
I am new to the whole modelling scene, but am enjoying every aspect of it so far as I discover skills I never knew i had!
I am using DCC simply because it does make life simple!
so far I have bought only DCC ready stock, but I would like to ask your opinions about the smoke generators offered by Seuthe, does any body recommend them? do they actually offer any realism in their operation? and most importantly how should they be connected to the decoder (e.g. A Bachmann 56xx ) and then which funtion will make them operate? finally, if fitted must they be used, or can the locomotive be run without the steam generator operating without damage to the steam unit?
Thank you for your time.
Duztee.
 

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Sleuthe smoke units will not fit in all your loco's the 56XX is a prime example of one that won't ( but check for yourself ). Clearance of the chassis below the chimney is required. I once fitted a smoke unit in a Bachmann split frame chassis (B1) I would not recommend this installation to anyone ! In general split frame chassis don't take smoke units well, as often the same area is used to fit in the decoder. Most Hornby tender loco's will take a smoke unit, I like to use the no 22 (for plastic bodies as it does offer some protection for them). smoke units are best used in short bursts for effect and then turn them off (F0) simple wiring is yellow white wires neutral bridged together, the other pole is Blue (live). Wired thus you can smoke in either direction. A no 22 will set you back +/- £13.50 depending on how many you buy. For some loco's I fit a sleuthe 100 this is a large unit for maximum effect, I machine my own insulation collar for these units. This protects the body from the considerable heat generated. Perhaps I should offer these for sale as they work exceptionally well, and my lathe is under utilised !
In some instances I fit a plug on the smoke unit particularly where a client has specified the use of a DCC plug, as always all joints are insulated this applied to the smoke unit as well. Use of Sleuth's smoke oil or that from First Class trains is recommended. I normally hold the smoke unit in with a small amount of epoxy, if they fail and they can, replacement isn't too much of an effort. The installation of large capacity smoke units in Engine sheds, tunnels and between the sleepers in stations, can add great visual effects, factory chimneys is another application. If you get the Rum and Raisin flavour, you get nice odours as well.
 

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I see Micro-Mart have a stationary smoke unit with a fan, this holds 70 odd drops of oil and is large capacity this would be great for covered stations, factories and loco sheds, the unit sells for $39.95 which is relativity cheap and will run on AC or DC power.
Smoke Generator
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks MMD, as predicted it was in deed a full, complete and precise reply, what a nice man!
thanks Neil for your imput also.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
A final point for anyone following this advice.
Check your decoder function output is sufficient for the generator chosen.
A seuthe #22 has a current draw of 120mA.
A lot of decoders have function supplied at only 100mA
Duztee.
 

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Yes I'm fully aware the the requirements, and the capacity. Most of the common makes of decoder will power a smoke unit without problems. TCS are a bit different as they will handle double
. In fact it's not long ago that I powered twin smoke units in Hornby Duchess off of one TCS M1, as a trial of this. It looked spectacular probably in the long term a metal chimney would be a good investment.
TCS decoders will safely power double the function output stated. Another reason to support this truly excellent product.
 

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The Seuthe #23 takes 70mA. I've just bought one but not installed it in anything yet.

David
 

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I opened the packet tonight and started poking it down some chimneys. It's a snug fit in the Hornby A3, A4 (single chimney) and the Scot. Is safe to glue the plastic coated version inside a Hornby or a Bachmann? The manual says the plastic needs to be able to tolerate 80 C. Can Hornby & Bachman tolerate that?

David
 

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QUOTE (dwb @ 16 Nov 2007, 10:06) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I opened the packet tonight and started poking it down some chimneys. It's a snug fit in the Hornby A3, A4 (single chimney) and the Scot. Is safe to glue the plastic coated version inside a Hornby or a Bachmann? The manual says the plastic needs to be able to tolerate 80 C. Can Hornby & Bachman tolerate that?

David
Now there's another benefit of metal bodies.
I would email them and ask. Roco plastic bodied locos don't have a problem with this but who knows if it's the same plastic and melting point.
 

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QUOTE The Seuthe #23 takes 70mA. I've just bought one but not installed it in anything yet.

I obtained a couple of Seuthe 23's and run them on a test bed as my normal installation is a 22. I found they failed to produce adequate smoke because of the voltage. I tried them on the Digitrax n gauge setting which I normally run on (12.5 volts) The H/O setting of around 16 volts, and finally on the O gauge setting of
22 volts none of these setting could induce the no 23 to produce adequate smoke. I then changed the smoke unit and used another thinking the first one could have been faulty and got the same result. As a result of these tests I returned to the no 22 which provides good life and volume of smoke and has a plastic wrapping to protect the body. The secret with smoke units is to use them sparingly between fills for effect. IE pulling away from a station, in a tunnel etc rather than running them constantly. Real steam loco's didn't produce large volumes of smoke all the time, I think it had something to do with the application of the blower and the drafting of the fire and the application of coal. Similar to normal coal fired boilers which I have a lot of experience, they will also smoke more and become very inefficient when tubes are due for brush out.

QUOTE I opened the packet tonight and started poking it down some chimneys. It's a snug fit in the Hornby A3, A4 (single chimney) and the Scot. Is safe to glue the plastic coated version inside a Hornby or a Bachmann? The manual says the plastic needs to be able to tolerate 80 C. Can Hornby & Bachmann tolerate that?

In my experience if you use the plastic bodied smoke unit IE the no 22 they work well and are coldish to the touch (the body). Fitting smoke in Bachmann bodies is very difficult are there isnt normally the clearance below the chimney.

If your worried about this, try an old trick and wrap the smoke unit in news paper with an application of epoxy to provide a bit of insulation. In my experience it isnt necessary if you use a 22. I often fit the seuthe 100 smoke unit in West Countrys and Merchant Navys this has a much larger volume of smoke oil and produces great smoke. I always fit my own insulation bush to protect the body.

 

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Thanks for the comprehensive reply, I really appreciate it


David
 

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no9 sweat do you want a 23 to try, I have a spare, I'd rather post it than bin it
BTW I use epoxy to hold the no 22's in place you don't need a lot and if you need to replace one - and they can fail, a sharp crack of the pliers is sufficient to remove them.
 

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Hi

Smoke generators in Tissue paper



I used layers and layers of tissue with epoxy glue.... have since found a new product which acts like a thermal blanket, only 10um (microns) thick keeps heat in my smoke generator and away from my loco body.

Using tank for storage acts as a heat sink( takes temp away + oil in storage gets warm before entering smoke generator = lots of smoke



Entry point for oil and top exit for air, be careful drilling, there is a glass filament inside tube!



I have each generator on a function, works well. It is fairly easy to do if you take your time and think it through, this was my second one to do, the first I didn't insulate my tank engines stack and it is lob sided now.



Its more lob sided than in this photo, plan to pull out some day.

Ahhh The golden rule: heat is the enemy of plastic (plastics, unless high performance engineering plastics like PEEK, PBI(highest of all) Vespel etc) have low softening points, in some cases much lower than melting point.

Hope thats given you some help or ideas best of luck.

m
 

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Interesting stuff. I'm not sure I'm ready to go that far just yet.

Thanks for posting.
David
 

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Very nice. I did'nt think ther was sufficient clearnace under the chimney " you proved me wrong". You might want to look at you operating voltage "if your DCC setup" allows you to reduce it try it on the N gauge setting, less volts less heat, longer smoke, and less wear and tear on decoders and other DCC goodies.
In fact when shopping for DCC equipment it's one aspect the should be looked at " the ability to reduce operating voltage ".
 

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Dont worry I looked at my 56xx also, and thought too much work to get it in but now that we have being shown the light.

Excellent job on your fit out - well done.
 

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If the smoke output is excessive, I believe it is possible to connect the return wire(s) from the smoke generator to one of the decoder input wires (red or black) instead of the blue (common return) to achieve half wave rectification and thus a lower average (half) voltage. This has the added advantage of making the smoke oil last longer.

Perhaps someone more expert than myself can confirm my thoughts on this subject.

 

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Perhaps you'd like to explain further
As I've never heard of this
IMHO it simply cannot work, but as always I stand to be corrected.

What is practical is to fit a suitable resistor to reduce voltage should the heat/smoke/smoke cycle be short. Seuthe are a bit coy with their literature on the subject. In practice it's a fine line between getting them to smoke, and achieving reason time between fills. The best thing about DCC is you can turn them off and on for maximum effect, this lengthens the cycle, reduces any heat, and is realistic. In six or seven years of fitting these units the only problems I've experienced is one total failure, and one chipped chimney caused by heat.

 
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