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Some thoughts about identification...Tenshodo Big Boy 4 8 8 4. 4002

493 Views 8 Replies 2 Participants Last post by  Burt K. Arthur
8
Some of you may have heard the terms " Hens Teeth ' and " squeezing blood from a turnup " well, thats what one gets it seems when asking questions about anything OLD but more specifically about early Tenshodo Brass Model 4 8 8 4 Steam Engines.

The question is having to do with my engines serial number identification...does it have one and what does it mean?

Apparently it's a very simple yet hard for anyone to say in words, discription of the perverbial meaning as such for this particular engine.

My Tenshodo is a UP 4 8 8 4, # 4002 dual can motored engine. On the brass panel of the cabin
is stamped and painted over a three digit number ( 101 ).

I have been to more than a few websites looking to find an answer and have come to a conclusion, right or wrong here is what I found with the persistence of a few out there telling me to check it out with no more detail than to make a comparrision between my engine and the ones I will see.

Knowing a bit of the history beginning sometime in the early part of 1950, Tenshodo built as stated " The Rolls Royce quality of Locomotives of their time " refering to the extreme detail and perfection to not only look but acual opperation as to the REAL engines with great acuracy. Tenshodo also hand stamped some of their product with a number validating the series built by seccession ( 1, 2, 3 etc. ). One of the engines I say was classified as a 1958. The number stamped on the cabin back plate was simply a ( 1 )...on anotherr engine appearing to be a 1960 model was stamped with a ( 9 1 ). There was a third sample, if my memory serves me date a 1961 the stamped number was ( 1 3 0 ).

All this seems rather fundimental but there appears no way to distinguish which batch of any year group they represent.

Later models 1963> either had no marking or simply labels.

Confused? Me too! What I suupose it comes down to is engineering, during specific years, what motors were used, how many, were the driver sets aticulated or fixed. There really does not seem to be any detail of this information in a single page or book discription though most seem to hint there is, I just have not found it.

The reason for wanting to know this is as many others too would need to know...for wanting to run the train on a track and not damage it for being ignorant of the correct procedures. There is no luxury if failure is the result.

It is interesting thinking that my engine could be 65 years old, but just knowing that is not a satisflying result without substantiated proof...like most things we humans make and can place our hands on this is not about " look at what I have got " I am trying to educate myself and become aware to the things that will preserve it, with this ancient of the model railroad designs something I can share with my family and anyone willing to ask about it. Plus I just love trains and this one mostly due to the Union Pacific revitlizing the 4014 and my interest in the BIG BOY with my childlike excitement. By the way, I'm 70 years old.

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It’s very rare to get scribed numbers on models they are usually either moulded or stamped they don’t look original to me they look more like someones licence number! But I could be wrong just a thought.
It’s very rare to get scribed numbers on models they are usually either moulded or stamped they don’t look original to me they look more like someones licence number! But I could be wrong just a thought.
I wasn't focusing on that..it is the STAMPED numder ( ! 0 1 ) on the back of tha cabin!
I wasn't focusing on that..it is the STAMPED numder ( ! 0 1 ) on the back of tha cabin!
Sorry some how I missed that photo I would hazard a guess it’s just a production number when built for identification being either / Persons Inspection number , Part number or Die number that produced that part. For example older car manufactures would often outsource parts to guarantee supply and had the same part produced by various outside manufacturers the parts were identical with the car manufacturers name part number on them but also a extra number that was unique to a particular supplier eg 1 , 2 , 3 ect for identification purposes.
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Have you tried to get in touch with Tenshodo in Japan they might have the answer here is a link
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Have you tried to get in touch with Tenshodo in Japan they might have the answer here is a link
Thank you.
Sorry some how I missed that photo I would hazard a guess it’s just a production number when built for identification being either / Persons Inspection number , Part number or Die number that produced that part. For example older car manufactures would often outsource parts to guarantee supply and had the same part produced by various outside manufacturers the parts were identical with the car manufacturers name part number on them but also a extra number that was unique to a particular supplier eg 1 , 2 , 3 ect for identification purposes.
My type O...my engine as you might see reads ( 1 0 1 ) as I mentioned others have stated that the number die stamped on the cab could be a series number but no one has yet stepped up and deffinitively stated beyond any doubt that it truely is as such. I have seen early models with single digits and paired numbers, one particular showed a ( 1 3 1 ) another with a single ( 1 ) and a different one with a ( 9 ).

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My type O...my engine as you might see reads ( 1 0 1 ) as I mentioned others have stated that the number die stamped on the cab could be a series number but no one has yet stepped up and deffinitively stated beyond any doubt that it truely is as such. I have seen early models with single digits and paired numbers, one particular showed a ( 1 3 1 ) another with a single ( 1 ) and a different one with a ( 9 ).
If these numbers are individual production numbers It would be interesting to know how many of the Big Boys Tenshodo actually produced.
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If these numbers are individual production numbers It would be interesting to know how many of the Big Boys Tenshodo actually produced.
I had a short conversation with someone who seemed pretty savvy about the subject, with the quanities, no dates and not much to the references to the serial numbers if thet had one, the information is not biblical in the sense that there numerical in a book somewhere from what I read into his discription. There are specific era's of Tenshodo according to years produced, those before 1963 and those after. It seems in 1963 PFM ( Pacific Fast Mail ) the company that became the main shipper of the Model Engine goods for Tenshodo and others had groups of identifiers that were in reference to those model groups which could identify perhaps the years of certain engines but again what I have seen seens to be is more generic and then there are those early engines thast were "custom" built for people and not identified like the group builds if the information I found serves me.
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