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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This topic has been going on for ages in our forum in Turkey between Marklin users and the rest. When I mean the rest I mean all other major brands that I know of whom are all tender driven. An exception might be the Roco steams which has a kind of shaft running thru the tender to the loco body transmitting the torque to the main wheels as well. I call it 4 wheel drive
.However that has its kickback too because any out of sync tends to lock the loco wheels.

Anyway, I'd like to have yr opinion on this subject. Marklin users claim that their Loco bodies are all, I'd like to call it: Full metal Jacket,all metal plus the motor being in the loco body, all in one, creates a very high pulling power, very null derailments...etc. compared with the tender driven brands.

The funny thing is I am abt to belive its merits too. My Liliput Br 52 is tender driven. The tender is all metal. loco chasis is metal and body plastic. I am experiencing a lot of derailments specially on points. I admit the Br 52 hates curves being a 2 - 10 -0 , but is it due to the fact that its tender driven? The loco body being lighter then the tender?

Thanks

Baykal
 

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Baykal,

Just a thought, have you checked the back to back clearances on the wheels?

My only steam tender loco (an old Rivarossi Royal Scot) has it's motor in the tender and a drive shaft to the loco wheels - it seems to work fine as it is quite heavy.

Regards

John
 

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QUOTE (BRITHO)My only steam tender loco (an old Rivarossi Royal Scot) has it's motor in the tender and a drive shaft to the loco wheels - it seems to work fine as it is quite heavy.

I have got one of those as well!
I also have 2 riv old time wood burners (formerly Poucher??) that are also tender drive. they are also very good runners. (and interestingly are the widest loco's i have. the cylinders stick out a very long way.

I hugely prefer loco drive. the tender is a much better shape for a speaker. i really dont think it matters that much though. i have seen both good and bad tender drive loco's and good and bad loco drive loco's.
I would be far more tempted by a loco drive than a tender drive.

I agree with BRITHO, check your back to backs.

Peter
 

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Personally I do not care where the motor is or what wheels it drives as long as the locomotive performs ! I have the same view on traction tyres. At the end of the day as soon as you put an electric motor into a steam outline loco you have compromised anyway.

My steam outline locomotives are a mixture of both tender & loco drive. Generally, the ones with tender drive & traction tyres have the most traction with the exception of the Trix BR44 (a 2-10-0) which is locomotive drive, motor in the cab & a metal body. We had 42 bogie coaches behind it on St.Laurent & apart from have to pull away very gently was well within its capability - we were trying to go for "44 behind a 44" but ended up with the buffers on the 44 6"/15cm behind the last coach !

Next time we have a play I will video the results but also would like to try a couple of UK outline locos for comparison.
 

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QUOTE (dbclass50 @ 11 Apr 2007, 16:24) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Next time we have a play I will video the results but also would like to try a couple of UK outline locos for comparison.

Love to help, but I don't think my fleet would be much use Fleischmann Warships, Lima 33's, all HO of course. (Mind you the 33's are a bit gutless, but they pull enough for my needs.)

Regards

John
 

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QUOTE (BRITHO @ 11 Apr 2007, 17:27) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Love to help, but I don't think my fleet would be much use Fleischmann Warships, Lima 33's, all HO of course. (Mind you the 33's are a bit gutless, but they pull enough for my needs.)

Regards

John

You'll be surprised - some small & light locomotives can be quite sure footed !
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
John and Peter

I've checked clearences they seem OK.

I guess the issue arises with the major 2-10-0 steam locos which are tender driven. Locos being lighter then the tenders.

Like the Br 44,45,50,52. The exception is the roco Br 50 ( the 4 wheel drive one ) which I have encountered no such problem.

I have noticed one thing when they are running backwards, everything seems fine. Tender behaves as the loco. The loco body follows. However when the situation reverses the tender pushes the loco body and most derailments occur with the very first guide wheels derailing first when going thru points and tight curves. Its a matter of weight I guess.

Another issue I've noticed is, the movement tolerances of the 3rd wheel perpendicular to the direction of the rail (i.e the middleone of the 5 ) in liliput is relatively smaller then that of the 2-10-0 of the Roco and Fleiscmanns. Thats probably why my Liliput Br 52's performance on 2nd radius curves is not quite effective.

I completely agree with you Dennis that tenders should be places for sound modules.

I am abt to go DCC and what good is a steam loco if you can't hear its chuff.

Cheers
Baykal
 

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QUOTE (ebaykal @ 11 Apr 2007, 18:27) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>most derailments occur with the very first guide wheels derailing first when going thru points and tight curves. Its a matter of weight I guess.
Cheers
Baykal

Check to see if there is sufficient movement in every direction for the pony truck (first guide wheels) to move. Some have the a spring on the pony truck. Some models also have to have the piston tails removed.I've never really had the problems that you are having, even with 2-10-0 locomotives.

Also check that there is enough side play in the "driving" wheels.
 

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QUOTE (dbclass50 @ 12 Apr 2007, 01:24) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Personally I do not care where the motor is or what wheels it drives as long as the locomotive performs ! I have the same view on traction tyres. At the end of the day as soon as you put an electric motor into a steam outline loco you have compromised anyway.

My steam outline locomotives are a mixture of both tender & loco drive. Generally, the ones with tender drive & traction tyres have the most traction with the exception of the Trix BR44 (a 2-10-0) which is locomotive drive, motor in the cab & a metal body. We had 42 bogie coaches behind it on St.Laurent & apart from have to pull away very gently was well within its capability - we were trying to go for "44 behind a 44" but ended up with the buffers on the 44 6"/15cm behind the last coach !

Next time we have a play I will video the results but also would like to try a couple of UK outline locos for comparison.
I agree performance comes first regardless of how it is acheived. I do have preference for the Maerklin style loco though, I have found the Trix locos perfect runners and have excellent pulling power. I haven't really had any problems with my German tender drive but with UK outline because it's comparitively light there is a tendency to derail.

I would love to see The Trix BR44 pulling 42 coaches. It's amazing what a well built loco can do!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Brian,

Seems I have solved the problem. Took the piston tails off (what good is a Br 52 without them.Guess have to live with it.) Took off the guide wheels and adjusted the spring mechanism so now it forces well to the rails. The major issue is the "side play" of the driving wheels specially the 3rd of the 5.Its nowhere near to the Roco nor the FLM's side play tolerances.

But anyhow thanks for all the advice its seems to be running well now.

Cheers
Baykal
 

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QUOTE (dbclass50 @ 11 Apr 2007, 18:19) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>You'll be surprised - some small & light locomotives can be quite sure footed !

Sounds like a challenge to me - I'll have to "profi" them and add decoders first however. Could be a bit of fun though.

Regards

John
 
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