[the volebender general]

Rail rider,

Some good additional questions.

the following is my working practice for a medium sized or larger layout:
it is only one solution among many.

As I have designed, rebuilt and upgraded most parts of my layout; the only thing left from my first system is the power bus, which I got right first time. (nothing else i might add!)

You buy lots of plastic chock blocks and cut them into fours.

Don't put them below your layout but above it. Cover with a back drop later. People with bad backs please take note!

Arrange them with the intention of having a horse shoe of wire (main ring)around the whole layout.

The gap I have between each block is about three feet (see what you think). No need to stretch the wire too tight a modest washing line is best. You pull when you solder remember.

Top wire is red, second wire down is black.

This is your main 'power bus' and is conneceted to any dcc amp( Hornby or Lenz or Digitrax) on the market.

Now next wire down is yellow and the one below can be black.

This bus is your 'assecory decoder bus' and is attached to a transformer like the Lenz TR100. (i'm sorry but as you progress - yes - you need two transformers)

This method will not let you down, and is highly flexible. Better to wire around an assecory decoder bus once at the very beginning; this will allow you to place the decoders near the section of track being built no matter how you design things.

This system will not let you down and will grow with you.

TVBG

RE: Two transformers above;

After I had posted this I looked at the Hornby 2006 which arrived today.
Hornby say about the Elite:
'the Elite is supplied with a 4amp transformer which is capable of providing... power to run ...eight locomotives. The transformer supplies 3 amps to the track and 1 amp for accessory control.'

Nice system and saves you thirty quid on the Lenz.

TVBG

 

[the volebender general]

Doug,

Thanks for correcting me. I have indeed called the two 'power' wires for the accessory decoders a 'bus'. If its improper I would edit it as 'accessory decoder power sub- system'.

mmm

In fact, perhaps, Doug you name it, and i will use that term in future so as to avoid confusion. I must confess both systems only have a name when I need to attach something to them!

Also, the red and black bus we are talking about is also surely a 'power' as well as a 'data' system. The bus to the feedback system is properly only a 'data' system. For what its worth I changed to green, to wire these modules on my layout.These feedback decoders are then powered by the system above; which Doug will name correctly for me.

If this info is to be used, it is important not to confuse new users and we must try to use the terms used in wider electronics.

Thanks for the feedback

TVBG

 

[the volebender general]

MMD,

Do you mean to say that if I had bought Digitrax instead of Lenz, I would not have to have the Star Ship Enterprise wiring system sitting under my layout telling my command unit where things happen to be? AAAAHHHH.

LisaP4,

When i go down stairs what should I call the system that runs around my layout, described above, powering all my static decoders? They do seem to be ignoring me.

TVBG

 

[the volebender general]

LisaP4,

You have never seen a Lenz LS150, for example, then.

He He.

Seriously,

Just so Doug and I can continue our disccussion on correct terms, and how to use them, how did you define the term BUS again?

TVBG

 

[the volebender general]

Thanks Lisa,

Accessory Power Bus - mmmm -think thats what i did call it!

p.s. Digitrax is even more expensive, you have cheared me up.

TVBG

 

[the volebender general]

Doug,

Me old mod friend. We seem to have hit a little problem about correct terms and you correcting them.

Just wonder how you are getting on with an alternative to 'accessory power bus'.

Right or Wrong -I would still love to know what to call something I first built five years ago me old mate.

TVBG

 

[the volebender general]

Doug,

1.I called The two wires running around my layout from amp to track via droppers the 'Power Bus'.

2.I called the two wires running from transformer to a row of stationary decoders an 'accessory power bus'.

On Lisa's definition this is ok (see above).

On my definition this is ok (obviously).

You say it is not, and then say your not sure because there is no dictionary of terms. If you are not sure you are 100% correct; How do you know i'm a 100% wrong? I might be or I might not be, but how do you, Doug the Mod, know ?

Doug I will not chase you on this anymore. When we first start on dcc we all become a little OTT in our excitement. I think you have just got carried away a little in manual land. If you read the post again; all i was trying to do, was pass on an idea for a flexible system that I paid dearly for in time and effort and has worked for me over the last couple of years.Looking at where you are you might like to try it.

Do not be too pendantic in you role as mod here; rubbish the content by all means if it is a bad idea? Remember, a power bus can be called 'twat knickers' tomorrow if thats what we all agree upon and all understand was formaly called a power bus!

Hand shakes at dawn?

TVBG

 

[the volebender general]

Very good question ChriseE ,

Have a quick look at the post I first made to the question set. Ignore the rest.

Actually, a real fact did emerge from the discussion.

My idea for a second 'accessory decoder bus' (not my invention at all in fact, just a happy user of someone elses advice), it could have reasonably be said, was system specific. No need to do what TVBG suggests if you have a digitrax system etc, etc, etc. No need to run around the houses about it. Fair point.

So as I do use Lenz - If you are thinking about Lenz express net and their products on a large layout: it might be a good idea. If not, chuck the idea out.

I am happy, no proud, to say I know nothing about Digitrax as a system. But as I have gone on record here as saying I will not be involved in any of the 'my system is better than yours stuff' will not say anything about 'cheap', second rate and the like and suggest you ignore it.

As for wiring on a larger layout, and if you do build a feedback or points system etc with express net, then yes you may well be thinking about what your favourite colours are. My point always about saying the colour is too suggest order to the reader without spelling it out in a paragraph.

One extra point, it is certainly true if you look at the Lenz 'Product Overview' none of the static decoders are pictured with the required wiring coming in nor out. They are very wire sanitized images. You now know why!

TVBG

 

[the volebender general]

Dear chrisE

Thanks for reading what I actually said.

Also thanks for seeing that I am tryng to get you to plan ahead. Once you have a few locos with sound decoders, for example, then your draw on five amps is massive. How about all your coaches and brake vans with lights and flasing lamps. Keep you track power for all of these in the future.

TVBG

 

[the volebender general]

Edwin,

Three buses... very funny.

Doug,

Nice work. Certainly useful to put diagrams to what was being suggested.

My simple point. If you are wiring your layout with a DCC signal and power BUS (your diagram) then wire at the same time the (accessory power feed). Hence my four chock block idea! Thats all.

Reason; it will allow you to move the Lenz point decoder(your diagram) anyware on your layout and wire close to the points (horrid reality)- my point decoders are over 15 feet apart. It will save time and money.

p.s. I wasn't thinking so much of a typical Lenz feeback system. Your diagram catches the key point. In reality there are in fact three distinct modules that have to be wired if you buy into Lenz. Your notch in the track section is correct, but if only it were two wires. Leave as is though.

p.s. being a mod is a hard job, you three guys are doing well, despite what you may think your work is appreciated here. thanks for creating the space.

TVBG

 

[the volebender general]

ChrisE,

know you are not an idiot.

I'm an idiot. I built an earlier dcc layout with the promise that i would have feedback and failed to do my research. And stripped it up when i found that it was no good for the job.

Carry on with your plans, you can build the layout of your dreams and carry them out with the ideas you have already read.

It really depends on what sort or type of occupancy detector system you want and why. A simpler signal stop, for example, will fit in with whatever you build.

A full blown computer control system (Rail Road and Co), for example, will take more forward planning.

They all, however, work on the isolated block system and you will find, for example, Peco code 75 track isolated at all exits provides a natural frame-work.

Do not get bogged down on this point, Doug put the F/B sytem into the diagram to cover all discussions. You will tend to install point decoders long before you worry about detection.

Just the humble opinion of one that is delaying this very job and enjoying the chat here instead.

mmmm

TVBG

 

[the volebender general]

Thanks,

there is a little method in my madness. You wont believe the pain of cutting through all your nicely soldered points.

I paid - you did some research in advance and put two and two together!

TVBG

 

[the volebender general]

Dynamite26,

My layout is half the size of yours and runs with one main power bus around it. From what you are asking it seems well worth while spliting yours into two power districts. It might not-

The point about three power districts or more, in my humble opinion, comes from large American club practice, say three or more operators. You do not want a short in one yard closing everybodies yards or 100 feet of mainline!

How many people running your empire?

Some people will worry you too much about shorts: dont worry they are helpful, you might actually want your whole system to 'trip',. Mine is so clever it will do it every time I set a point the wrong way(true).

If I my be so bold please see my post two on this thread, I had people like you and ChrisE in mind. It will not let you down, is flexible and has saved me much time.

TVBG

 

[the volebender general]

One of the reasons I always suggest a large horse shoe around your layout is not for any electronics reason.

I have also heard loads of stuff about twisted wires, must end with an xxx across the gap, light bulbs, shut down units, god knows. Dont know anything about any of it myself. Read about it all five years ago and have since ignored it all quite happily.

My horse shoe starts in a choc box and runs around the room. The choc boxes do not also have feeders in (just the main bus): you solder the feeders in where ever you like too the bus wires. Screw choc boxes in once; solder anywhere as your layout grows Flexibilty is the key.

If you have lots of set track start with North, South East and west on each loop line and see how you get on. Problem areas get special feeder attention. Too many problem ares with your isolating points and old fish plates and you will need the attention!

Tripping system is the best diagnostic tool - second best; a coach with lights in.

Finally, so why a horse shoe shape for your power bus then TVGB?

Well you do have a door in the room dont you? If you start at one side and end at the other its a .....

KISS

TVBG