The Clans

4045 Views 17 Replies 13 Participants Last post by 7113, Jul 13, 2007

Gary

Discussion Starter · Jul 12, 2007

The Clan Class of steam locos seem a firm favourite for 2008 on the Hornby forum. It is seen as any easy subject as it is a mini Britannia which is already in Hornby's fleet. However I doubt anybody from outside Scotland would buy The Clans and therefore they have a limted appeal. They were also not one of BR's successes according to most comentators.

Is this line of thinking right or wrong?

And as an aside which model in the considered opinion of members was the least successful of any of the prototypes to be modelled by Hornby, Bachmann or anybody else?

Happy modelling
Gary

PS What surprised me during a conversation with SK is how successful the Q1 has been in Scotland!

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

pedromorgan

· #2 · Jul 12, 2007

i think the problem was that they were just too late. and also that it was the classic engineering mistake of comming up with a soloution to a problem that simply didnt exist. the trains that it pulled were much better served buy large tank engines and the pacific still had the 6 driving wheels but without the extre weight that the tanks would have brought. this resulted in a loss of adhesion and a weak loco.

Also the powers at be were already moving away from steam.

It would be quite difficult for hornby to do as there is not a preserved example and relativly few pictures.

Using the brit as a precident is not really valid. not only was there a preserved example but there was a really first rate preserved example in oliver cromwell that was in virtualy the same condition as it was when it was withdrawn.

apart from the tender i dont think any of the britannia tooling could be reused.

also i am just bored with them doing so many BR green loco's. am i the only person who got bored with BR green after about my 5th loco?

Peter

See less See more

Dan Hamblin

· #3 · Jul 12, 2007

QUOTE (pedromorgan @ 12 Jul 2007, 11:49) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>apart from the tender i dont think any of the britannia tooling could be reused.
The Clans were effectively a Britannia with a smaller boiler, more akin to the original proposed top of the range locomotive in the BR Standard fleet. That means the chassis should be near enough identical (maybe with new cylinders required, I can't remember if they were of smaller diameter). New smoke deflectors would also be needed as would a re-shaped internal weight to take account of the smaller diameter boiler.

The class actually travelled far and wide, with one example appearing on the GWR mainline on a tour and another appearing on the West Highland line in association with a gathering of the Clan that it was named after.

Hornby did after all manage to produce the Grange of which there are none in existence at the moment.

Regards,

Dan

34C

· #4 · Jul 12, 2007 (Edited by Moderator)

If Hornby wanted to do it, it should be just the loco body, as the tender and loco chassis are common. (Edited to add: Dan, the cylinders were half an inch smaller in internal diameter - no visual external difference in 4mm scale .) And if the body tooling is conveniently arranged, it might be that elements like the cab and running plate, as well as applied detail would also be usable. But would it be popular? I rather doubt it, particularly as they look puny alongside the Britannia.

They could go the other way and use the Britannia chassis, tender and other parts as the basis for DoG, which is running, and with some rail tour related promotion might be popular enough to make sufficient sales...

Makemineadouble

· #5 · Jul 12, 2007

2

QUOTE also i am just bored with them doing so many BR green loco's. am i the only person who got bored with BR green after about my 5th loco?

Have to agree, I'm always attracted to pre-war Crimson Lake now which company was that ?

See less See more

7113

· #6 · Jul 12, 2007 (Edited by Moderator)

I f i remember correctly there was a second batch ordered for the Southern Region. This run would have started with locos for the Kent coast line starting with 72010 Hengist. The order was cancelled, perhaps if larger numbers had been built they would have proved as popular as the Brits.

Anyway isn't there a group out there somewhere trying to build Hengist?

Regards

John

Don

· #7 · Jul 12, 2007

QUOTE (Gary @ 12 Jul 2007, 11:37) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>However I doubt anybody from outside Scotland would buy The Clans and therefore they have a limted appeal. They were also not one of BR's successes according to most comentators.

I disagree. Whether or not the prototype was a success doesn't indicate whether the model would be a success.

The Clans were quite good-looking in my opinion, the smaller boiler allowing a taller chimney which gave it a more balanced look than the Brits. I'm a Southern modeller and I'd certainly have one as Hengist.

They would probably have been quite successful on the Southern, certainly on the South-Eastern boat trains - just not required because there were so many Bulleids by then. If the Bulleids has been scrapped, rather than rebuilt, it could have been a different story.

60134

· #8 · Jul 12, 2007

Given the development of the Standard Fives, I wonder if later examples of Clans (had the full order been built) would have featured double chimneys or even Caprotti valve gear....

Remember that the un-built batch were destined for the Southern Region!

60134

Gary

Discussion Starter · #9 · Jul 12, 2007 (Edited by Moderator)

QUOTE Remember that the un-built batch were destined for the Southern Region!

That is a very interesting fact often overlooked!

Whoever produces this model could offer the fantasy un-built models for BR Southern Region modellers to run besides the Spam Cans and rebuilt Bulleids.

They could be very big sellers in this form!

Here are their names:-

72010 Hengist
72011 Horsa
72012 Canute
72013 Widfire
72014 Firebrand

And here are the names of the 10 Clans that operated in Scotland:-

72000 Clan Buchanan
72001 Clan Cameron
72002 Clan Campbell
72003 Clan Fraser
72004 Clan Macdonald
72005 Clan Macgregor
72006 Clan Mackenzie
72007 Clan Mackintosh
72008 Clan Macleod
72009 Clan Stewart

Now how many Macdonalds around the world would like to have a model of Clan Macdonald above their fireplace. There could be a promotion with a certain restuarant chain!

And the Conservative Party leader might be interested.

The preserved railway at Swanage in Dorset are actually in the process of building Hengist as and when money allows so at some future point there will be a working Class member in preservation.

Happy modelling
Gary

See less See more

neil_s_wood

· #10 · Jul 12, 2007

I'm in big trouble if they do make this as I would have to buy one of each they made!

QUOTE However I doubt anybody from outside Scotland would buy The Clans and therefore they have a limted appeal

You only speak for yourself there. Not everyone is as narrow minded as that.

QUOTE also i am just bored with them doing so many BR green loco's. am i the only person who got bored with BR green after about my 5th loco?

Yes we definitely need more colour variants.

Mercator II

· #11 · Jul 13, 2007

72010 Hengist

The preserved railway at Swanage in Dorset are actually in the process of building Hengist as and when money allows so at some future point there will be a working Class member in preservation.

Gary, whilst you are correct that someone is attempting to build 72010 Hengist, it isn't Swanage Heritage railway, they are just the location at the minute, but not for longer as 72010 Society have been given eviction orders. The two parties haven't fallen out, just that Swanage need the shed space back for their own projects, simular to when Eddystone was no longer required last year.

Not sure were 72010 is moving to but will flick though me mags and see if I can find out, hopefully will have more than the frames soom!

I would have a model of a 'Clan' either a real one or 'one that never was' Like the names in that second batch, I seam to be collecting by accident all the Standards and Ivatt cousins

Brian

Don

· #12 · Jul 13, 2007

It's well known that 72010 to 72014 were to be named Hengist, Horsa, Canute, Wildfire and Firebrand for the Southern Region, but few seem to know that 72015 to 72024 were also given provisional names:

72015 Clan Colquhoun
72016 Clan Graham
72017 Clan Macdougall
72018 Clan Maclean
72019 Clan Douglas
72020 Clan Gordon
72021 Clan Hamilton
72022 Clan Kennedy
72023 Clan Lindsay
72024 Clan Scott.

Perhaps if they have to leave Swanage we'll see the 72010 Society change its name to the 72024 Society to find a permanent home north of the Border!

Don

See less See more

Dan Hamblin

· #13 · Jul 13, 2007

QUOTE (bro sewell @ 13 Jul 2007, 10:27) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Not sure were 72010 is moving to but will flick though me mags and see if I can find out, hopefully will have more than the frames soom!
I think it is Shillingstone on the old Somerset and Dorset route.

Regards,

Dan

Colombo

· #14 · Jul 13, 2007

Looking at the tractive effort , the cylinder size and the boiler pressure, I would hazard a guess that a Standard Class 5 or Black 5 could do everything that a Clan was designed to do, and more cheaply.

Carlisle used to send a Clan to York on the football supporters train when they had an away game against York in League Division 3 (North). Does anybody know if they used Clans for every away match?

Colombo

7113

· #15 · Jul 13, 2007

2

QUOTE (Gary @ 12 Jul 2007, 20:55) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>72004 Clan Macdonald
Now how many Macdonalds around the world would like to have a model of Clan Macdonald above their fireplace. There could be a promotion with a certain restuarant chain!

Would you get fries with it though?

Regards

John

See less See more

Ozzie21

· #16 · Jul 13, 2007

Well for my 20cents worth, 2bob in old money. DJH already make a 4mm Clan so after the LNER W1 and V2 are built I'll be getting the Clan. If Hornby were to make a Clan I'd buy one. They weren't as poor performers as some would make out, it was just that they were doing the same job as a class 7 or 8 were expected to do over similar lines. As with all the BR steam designs it was too little too late as the forth coming dieselisation rendered any further developement programs for BR steam to zero. As has been proved with Duke of Gloucester a proper developement program sorts out the problems. There was an Argentinian locomotive engineer , De la Porta was his name I think, who did a design proposal for the LNER that would have taken an A-1 pacific from an 1800hp loco to a 3500hp loco. Imagine that thundering down the east coast, or west coast, mainlines in the late seveties if natioanalisation and dieselisation had never come.

Ozzie21

5696Arethusa

· #17 · Jul 13, 2007

3

QUOTE (BRITHO @ 13 Jul 2007, 12:44) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Would you get fries with it though?

Regards

John

The fast food company link up is a non starter I'm afraid, as they're called McDonald, no "a" between the M and c. Though I seem to remember them trying to sue a Scotish cafe owner who was called MacDonald for using his name above the door to his cafe.
However if you really want a fictitious fastfood steam loco maybe Hornby could do 6030 "Burger King" it could certianly do the "flame grilled whopper"

See less See more

7113

· #18 · Jul 13, 2007

QUOTE (5696Arethusa @ 13 Jul 2007, 13:55) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>However if you really want a fictitious fastfood steam loco maybe Hornby could do 6030 "Burger King" it could certianly do the "flame grilled whopper"

That's it........I'm now convinced we should get out more, Thats Hall I'm going to say in a Manor of speaking............................gurgle gurgle wibble

Regards

John

See less See more

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.