'Pullman (travelling in style)' by Brian Haresnape pub Ian Allan; is a good summary history of Pullman cars in the UK, and well illustrated to show the development in appearance as the designs evolved from the original US clerestory roof open end platform design.
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Richard,
At the time of publication it was as full a summary as could be compiled relating to Pullman car company operations in the UK from the first Midland acquisition, and as far as I recall pretty much covers 'everything' until BR bought out the contract. Not sure if it is still in print, ISBN 0-7110-1648-8 in case that helps. Unfortunately I no longer have the book and cannot recall if it definitely deals with the LMS and BR history of the ex-Caledonian cars once they came into the LMS' possession. What I do recall is that the Caledonian contract expired in the mid 1930's, and the LMS then liveried them in their stock maroon and branded them as restaurant cars, some vehicles continuing into BR operation painted crimson and cream.
At the time of publication it was as full a summary as could be compiled relating to Pullman car company operations in the UK from the first Midland acquisition, and as far as I recall pretty much covers 'everything' until BR bought out the contract. Not sure if it is still in print, ISBN 0-7110-1648-8 in case that helps. Unfortunately I no longer have the book and cannot recall if it definitely deals with the LMS and BR history of the ex-Caledonian cars once they came into the LMS' possession. What I do recall is that the Caledonian contract expired in the mid 1930's, and the LMS then liveried them in their stock maroon and branded them as restaurant cars, some vehicles continuing into BR operation painted crimson and cream.
QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 9 Dec 2008, 07:41) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>It may be stretching memories to ask, but does either book have info as to the diagrammes used - ie line drawings or pictures - I ask as the one LMS painted pullman photo I have seems to have a different window count to the hornby coaches and be on 6 wheel bogies..
The current Hornby models (both the older unlit all-steel cars for the Queen of Scots, and the newer flush sided and matchboard cars with lighting) are all 'type K' cars built from the mid 1920's. These are effectively the final format of the UK Pullman Company designed cars.
The Caledonian vehicles are of an earlier design format, which is somewhat different, and here's the real rub; the company built vehicles on 'available' secondhand underframes. I remember reading a piece by Dr David Jenkinson during his years as an NRM officer, referring to the complexity this introduced: because the Pullman company had been anxious to obscure the 'recycled' nature of some its' 'all-new' cars! So there are subtle variations within notionally similar vehicles as the bodies were bespoke to suit the chassis.
The external appearance had a unity thanks to the styling, which is generically closest to the matchboard type K cars. But some were on turnbuckle underframes, others angle trussed, four and six wheel bogies were used, there were slight variations in overall length, and they were screwcoupled with bellows style corridor connectors to suit Caledonian operations. There is definitely a diagram applicable to a pair of the Caledonian cars in the 'Modeller's Backtrack' article, and photos of two or three of the cars at various times in their careers.
The current Hornby models (both the older unlit all-steel cars for the Queen of Scots, and the newer flush sided and matchboard cars with lighting) are all 'type K' cars built from the mid 1920's. These are effectively the final format of the UK Pullman Company designed cars.
The Caledonian vehicles are of an earlier design format, which is somewhat different, and here's the real rub; the company built vehicles on 'available' secondhand underframes. I remember reading a piece by Dr David Jenkinson during his years as an NRM officer, referring to the complexity this introduced: because the Pullman company had been anxious to obscure the 'recycled' nature of some its' 'all-new' cars! So there are subtle variations within notionally similar vehicles as the bodies were bespoke to suit the chassis.
The external appearance had a unity thanks to the styling, which is generically closest to the matchboard type K cars. But some were on turnbuckle underframes, others angle trussed, four and six wheel bogies were used, there were slight variations in overall length, and they were screwcoupled with bellows style corridor connectors to suit Caledonian operations. There is definitely a diagram applicable to a pair of the Caledonian cars in the 'Modeller's Backtrack' article, and photos of two or three of the cars at various times in their careers.
That's an interesting idea. I have seen the use of HO models of the DB side door coal hoppers to represent the BR iron ore hoppers
that were operated on the Tyne Dock to Consett operation, and they looked pretty well. Cannot remember the name of the exhibition
layout, many years ago now.
The one thought I would have with an HO coach, is that the wheels would be very small compared to any UK coach stock it ran with or
was adjacent to. Whether that mattered to you would have to be assessed by the experiment suggested by Richard; and substituting
larger diameter wheelsets would be possible, though this might need some clearance cut into the vehicle underside.
On the positive side the American HO market does offer some very good clerestory roofed vehicles, with constructions that are - shall we
say - 'challenging' to bring off well by DIY: coved sections of both the main roof end and the clerestory roof anyone? Looks spectacularly
elegant when perfectly executed, and a dog's breakfast when not...
that were operated on the Tyne Dock to Consett operation, and they looked pretty well. Cannot remember the name of the exhibition
layout, many years ago now.
The one thought I would have with an HO coach, is that the wheels would be very small compared to any UK coach stock it ran with or
was adjacent to. Whether that mattered to you would have to be assessed by the experiment suggested by Richard; and substituting
larger diameter wheelsets would be possible, though this might need some clearance cut into the vehicle underside.
On the positive side the American HO market does offer some very good clerestory roofed vehicles, with constructions that are - shall we
say - 'challenging' to bring off well by DIY: coved sections of both the main roof end and the clerestory roof anyone? Looks spectacularly
elegant when perfectly executed, and a dog's breakfast when not...
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