[John H-T]

This has developed into a very interesting thread.

One of the early bodies (1870's) of one of the American Pulmans bought by the Midland Railway is conserved in The Kirtley Museum at The Midland Railway Center in Derbyshire. It is not being restored but it is under cover and the aim is preserve it as it is so that it stays original.

Four of the early coaches were converted for push pull trains paired with Midland and Great Northern 4-4-0T transfered to the Midland specially for the purpose. Two were based at Derby, One being used on the Derby to Wirksworth Service. The other two were based at St. Albans. They were used for about 4-5 years before the 4-4-0T were returned to the M&GNR. There are several pages of information about the coaches and the 4-4-0Ts in Midland Railway Locomotives: Vol One General Survey by Stephen Summerson, which is still available.

There is some information about the use of the ex Caledonian Pullman Coaches used on the Far North Line of the ex Highland Railway in BR days in The Great Days of Country Railways by David St John Thomas and Patrick Whitehouse.

In October 1951 a Pullman Car was added to the 6.40 am Inverness- Wick mail train to serve breakfast (three courses for 5s 0d [25p]). There is a photo of coach number 219 in what looks like LMS livery (former pullman car Queen Margaret, built by Metro-Cammell in 1927) being detached from the train at the Mound by ex Highland 0-4-4T 55053 in October 1950. The coach would then wait at The Mound to be attached to the south bound mail at 11.25 am.

There is another photo of the same service in Highland Railway Locomotives Book 2, RCTS, this time in October 1953, again with 55053 just about to attach Car Sc219M, again it would appear to be in LMS livery, to the rear of the south bound train at the Mound.

The last of the ex Caledonian Pullmans was withdrawn in the early 1960s.

 

[John H-T]

QUOTE (Nick Holliday @ 11 Dec 2008, 08:41) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>By happy coincidence Steve Banks has contributed some notes on this very subject in the current Model Rail. He concludes..."Peter Tatlow is working up the LMS side for a fresh article but I would advise modellers to get hold of the following: Pullman Cars on the LMS, Peter Tatlow, MRJ No 26; Pullman Services on the LMS by Niall Ferguson, BackTrack LMS Special, 1988; Caledonian Railway Pullman Carriages and their Successors, Niall Ferguson, BackTrack MArch 2005; Caledonian in LMS Days, Niall Ferguson and David Stirling, Pendragon 2007..."

Also the Caledonian Railway Association (web address crass!!! ) had an article on the Pullman in one of their journals.

Thanks Nick for drawing attension to the article in Model Rail. I had managed to miss it! I look forward to Peter Tatlow's Article in due course.

As far as the M&GNR 4-4-0Ts are concerned, they were returned to the M&GNR in 1912 having been borrowed for 6 months in 1906! They were sold to the War Department in May 1917 and two were sold on into industrial service later. However No. 10 (MR No. 5 and WD No. 51) became Longmoor No. 1 Kingsley and was retained for rerailing practice until scrapped in 1953!

Not a lot to do with Pulmans but does give some more of the History of the M&GNR 4-4-0Ts

 

[John H-T]

I managed to pick up a copy of Pullman Trains in Britain by R W Kidner (Oakwood Press) from The Ecclesbourne Valley Railway Association Shop at the Railway In Wirksworth, Derbyshire. They have a least one more copy (£8.95) so if anyone is interested I will post a contact telephone number.

There are two photos of the early MR Pullman Coaches in the Kidner Book.

It is a good general overview at least a starting point.

At the same time I picked up a copy of the Midland Railway Society's newly published book "The Midland Railway Steam Motor Carriages" by Stephen Summerson. It is in the same format as the same author's Midland Railway Locomotives. It was the relative lack of success of the two railmotors that lead to the pairing of old Pullman Coaches with the M&GNR 4-4-0Ts.
The railmotors and the Pullman/4-4-0T combination were used at some point on the Wirksworth Branch before the John son 0-4-4Ts took over.

One of the Railmotors (2234) was later converted into an Inspection Saloon and paired with MR Spinner 600 fitted with Vacuum controlled. 2234 survives at the NRM Shildon but in urgent need of restoration.

I know this is slightly off topic but in a way it links in with the later use of the MR Pullmans.

 

[John H-T]

QUOTE (Saint Johnstoun @ 25 Dec 2008, 08:56) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>You will note that Hornby are planning to release 12 wheel Pullmans in 2009!

Should give a lot of new scope for adding Pulmans to our layouts. As far as I can work out they are based on the last batch of 12 Wheelers built after the First World War up to 1921. One or two still exist.

 

[John H-T]

I have now got a copy of "Pullman Profile No 1 : The 12 - wheel cars," by Anthony M Ford. Includes a chapter on the Caledonian 12 wheel coaches. It also covers all the 12 coaches to be released by Hornby.

Expensive, got mine for £26.51 inc p&p, but a mine of information with lots of photos and drawings.