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Hello,

I am attempting to make the very special ÖBB 1116 250-0, decorated specially in 2006 to celebrate 250 years since Mozart, the creator of so much glorious music, was born:



I intend to make this a 'project thread' and would welcome all comments and suggestions, since there are many people on the forum with great expertise in this field, even if they do normally work in a larger less fiddly scale! As you can see the design is very intricate and the overall effect is rather stunning when seen for real at the head of an InterCity service (or on coal train!). Here is a picture from a Roco H0 model showing the other side:



I begin with a Hobbytrain HUPAC Taurus, and have been lucky to obtain metallic gold decals for all the details of the design from the original artistess in Austria. This picture below shows how a template for the decals was made, with an OHP printout of the final design to see how it looks (this is not the decal itself which is fully coloured and with metallic gold.)




Ages ago I asked for some advice on airbrushing/spray painting, and it was for this project which I have only just begun. So far I have taken all the glazing and pantographs from the bodyshell, masked up the corners and given the model a rather crude undercoat with enamel paint in frustration (this turns out to have been a rather stupid thing to do). Nothing acrylic seemed to want to stick, perhaps I should have coated the model with some kind of varnish for painting on to...oh well too late now (not actually as I am planning to make two models...so after I screw this one up royally then you can point out everything I did wrong and hopefully the second will turn out better!

Currently it looks like this
:



The gold looks too dark here but the picture was taken in the shade in the garden; as I look at pictures of the real train the colour of the gold seems to keep changing and it is driving me mad. I suppose that as long as the paint I use matches the gold on the decals then I will be happy, even though this may upset some people! There I have just dicovered I have a serious problem, having packed the decals carefully away I didn't check if they matched the paint I have used, the result being
:



I then intended to do the fiddly bits, once the bulk coat has dried. The decals will, when applied, completely cover the sides so the gold paint I've painted on is mainly for the front and rear, and in case there are holes/see-through bits in the decal. It looks like I'll need to find some paint the right colour first!

That is it so far!

Goedel
 

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Great job! Do keep us informed.

I saw the real thing a couple of days ago here at Seelze. Very impressive artwork.
 

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QUOTE (ME 26-06 @ 10 Aug 2007, 17:31) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I saw the real thing a couple of days ago here at Seelze. Very impressive artwork.
That is quite far from Austria - the ÖBB are obviously proudly showing it off to people!
Were you close enough to see how the design was wearing, any chips in the pattern (far more likely that it was just dirty!)?

I would be interested to know how well the 'decals' on real locomotives last...the SBB have had lots of practice on the Re 460 but the ÖBB haven't done much advertising on its locomotives, instead using several for non-commercial promotions such as a charity, Kyoto, the Red Cross, Bundesheer etc. - perhaps I can get away with messing up the decal by blaming it on wear and tear!


Goedel
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
QUOTE (ME 26-06 @ 10 Aug 2007, 16:31) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Great job! Do keep us informed.
After a long delay while I despaired at various alternatives I have just ordered some imitation gold leaf and some Ormoline gold paint in the appropriate "best guess" shades of gold from Gold Leaf Supplies. Fingers crossed one of them will match the transfers and I can get on with the project! In the mean time I will attempt to sand the paint off...
...it is fortunate I have two body shells to use!
 

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QUOTE (goedel @ 3 Jan 2008, 06:38) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>After a long delay while I despaired at various alternatives I have just ordered some imitation gold leaf and some Ormoline gold paint in the appropriate "best guess" shades of gold from Gold Leaf Supplies. Fingers crossed one of them will match the transfers and I can get on with the project! In the mean time I will attempt to sand the paint off...
...it is fortunate I have two body shells to use!

***Goedel, an excellent and challenging project. Keep at it = persistence will pay off in the end!

The matching of gold is a huge challenge and I wish you luck. You might like to look at the humbrol (thin with white spirit or similar) , citadel colour (thin with water + a small amount of methylated spirits - abut 20% spirits to water) or US based floquil gold (I also thin this with white spirit).

Remember too that some golds will actually change slightly with the addition of decal setting solutions and top clear coat, usually dulling very slightly...so keep applications of these things as light as you can.

A thought: no need to sand the paint off - there are several brands of plastic compatible paint stripper. A brand I have used for years is "Polly S" which is now I believe distributed by testors who make a huge range of hobby paint. Another I found recently is "Eco strip" which seems to work very well indeed. it is made by Eco solutions Ltd, Winscome North, Somerset, England BS25 1BH.

both are also water soluble and quite safe to use.

Richard
 

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Today's quiz question: What was Mozart's first name? (clue, it wasn't Wolfgang). No peeking at Wikipedia now!
 

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geodel:

Not sure what paint you've used, but Modelstrip (an alkalyne paste in a tub) could well remove the paint . It certainly seems to take off most paint including one or two factory finishes . I've used it quite often and had good results. It used to be available from Mainly Trains by mail order although they are reducing the range of items they carry so I'm not sure

Sanding it off fills me with horror, especially on an N gauge body
 

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Is there no way you could make the design on your computer, then print onto clear film and apply to the model? Most if not all racing cars thesedays have their designs applied in this way and they peel off later if required.
 

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Thanks very much for the words of encouragement Richard!

QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 3 Jan 2008, 02:19) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>A thought: no need to sand the paint off - there are several brands of plastic compatible paint stripper. A brand I have used for years is "Polly S" which is now I believe distributed by testors who make a huge range of hobby paint. Another I found recently is "Eco strip" which seems to work very well indeed. it is made by Eco solutions Ltd, Winscome North, Somerset, England BS25 1BH.

both are also water soluble and quite safe to use.
This is particular sounds a much better way of removing the paint! I'll give one of them a try...

QUOTE (Ravenser @ 3 Jan 2008, 17:53) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Modelstrip (an alkalyne paste in a tub) could well remove the paint . It certainly seems to take off most paint including one or two factory finishes . I've used it quite often and had good results. It used to be available from Mainly Trains by mail order although they are reducing the range of items they carry so I'm not sure
Thanks for that Ravenser, I now have three things to try...almost as many as there are incorrect shades of gold to remove!


QUOTE (simonj)Is there no way you could make the design on your computer, then print onto clear film and apply to the model? Most if not all racing cars thesedays have their designs applied in this way and they peel off later if required.
Hello simon,

The design is too complicated to make from scratch on computer, otherwise I would have had a go myself (which I might try making a Railjet next if a model isn't released before I finish Mozart!)



An alternative would be to use high resolution pictures of the Roco H0 model, but since I was able to contact the original designer of the livery she very kindly helped to make a one-off set of super-high resolution decals from her original design to the measurements I took - it would be hard to get a better finish! This is why I am trying to do justice to the decals by exactly matching the paint.
 

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QUOTE (goedel @ 4 Jan 2008, 07:07) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Thanks very much for the words of encouragement Richard!

This is particular sounds a much better way of removing the paint! I'll give one of them a try...

Thanks for that Ravenser, I now have three things to try...almost as many as there are incorrect shades of gold to remove!


Hello simon,

The design is too complicated to make from scratch on computer, otherwise I would have had a go myself (which I might try making a Railjet next if a model isn't released before I finish Mozart!)



An alternative would be to use high resolution pictures of the Roco H0 model, but since I was able to contact the original designer of the livery she very kindly helped to make a one-off set of super-high resolution decals from her original design to the measurements I took - it would be hard to get a better finish! This is why I am trying to do justice to the decals by exactly matching the paint.

**Hi again Goedel

Thinking outside the square a little...

Another thought that might make it easier, although I am not sure its reasonable to ask the obviously helpful artist who did the decals for you... time or cost wise.

Is it possible to get another copy of the decal which simply deletes the gold?

Most computer print jobs can be resolved into "layers" and if the gold only is selected and removed (or even just the gold at the extreme left and right, not necessarily the smaller patche within the image) then you will have no matching problems and the final result will inevitably be "right" once you've painted the loco all over with the "almost perfect" Gold.

Kind regards

Richard
 

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Gold-free decals would perhaps have been an idea, however I am afraid getting more decals is not really possible, given the significant cost of the ones I have, and as I understand it would involve major work for the artist who would have to reprocess the design into the different colours for printing etc. etc.

I can't find Polly S or Eco-Strip for sale anywhere, but I have found Modelstrip in an online shop. Would normal paint stripper be too strong or more likely to react with the plastic bodyshell?

Regarding varnishes, I have some normal Humbrol enamel varnish, presumably this can be painted on...but how to get a thin even layer, is it necessary to thin it with something or will I then have fizzing decals?

During the course of the project so far I noticed the inconvenience of having to buy by mail/internet order paint from X, varnish from Y, more paint from Z, etc. etc. and for each postage costs and the chance of it not being delivered. Is the traditional model shop that sells it all in one place just none-existant in the UK (West Midlands...) or am I not looking hard enough? Presumably more generalised model shops that focus on aircraft etc. are the place to go since model aircraft are usually assembled and painted by the modellers, in contrast to how the average model train is arrived at on a layout?

Thanks if anyone can offer some advice! (Oh and the gold leaf arrived today - very almost a perfect match with the decals!!
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QUOTE (goedel @ 8 Jan 2008, 22:29) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I can't find Polly S or Eco-Strip for sale anywhere, but I have found Modelstrip in an online shop. Would normal paint stripper be too strong or more likely to react with the plastic bodyshell?

DO NOT use ordinary paint strippers on plastic - it reacts and makes a nasty mess!

Regards
 

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QUOTE (goedel @ 9 Jan 2008, 07:29) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Gold-free decals would perhaps have been an idea, however I am afraid getting more decals is not really possible, given the significant cost of the ones I have, and as I understand it would involve major work for the artist who would have to reprocess the design into the different colours for printing etc. etc.

I can't find Polly S or Eco-Strip for sale anywhere, but I have found Modelstrip in an online shop. Would normal paint stripper be too strong or more likely to react with the plastic bodyshell?

Regarding varnishes, I have some normal Humbrol enamel varnish, presumably this can be painted on...but how to get a thin even layer, is it necessary to thin it with something or will I then have fizzing decals?

During the course of the project so far I noticed the inconvenience of having to buy by mail/internet order paint from X, varnish from Y, more paint from Z, etc. etc. and for each postage costs and the chance of it not being delivered. Is the traditional model shop that sells it all in one place just none-existant in the UK (West Midlands...) or am I not looking hard enough? Presumably more generalised model shops that focus on aircraft etc. are the place to go since model aircraft are usually assembled and painted by the modellers, in contrast to how the average model train is arrived at on a layout?

Thanks if anyone can offer some advice! (Oh and the gold leaf arrived today - very almost a perfect match with the decals!!
)

***Hi Goedel

I think this is an excellent project and I'd be happy to help...

If it would make it any easier for you I could go to my supplier and get you a tub of Eco Strip - its a little under $A20 per pot and post would be about $A10 by airmal maximum - probably 7 days to UK, maybe ten to EU (its safe to ship by airmail). If U want to do that let me know with a direct email to me and I'll do it - you could paypal the cost to me once I've got the exact amounts....

One pot will do many models so its quite economical to use.

Regards

Richard
 

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Dear Goedel,

I was in my local branch of Conrad today (Stadtlau, bei Wien) and they had the Roco H0 model for about 200 euros. Having read so much about it, I nearly bought the loco, but it would be hard to justify running it on a 1930s Southern Railway branch train (Allhallows Branch)!

If you ever come up to Vienna, just arange to drop by.
 

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QUOTE (John @ 10 Jan 2008, 22:38) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Dear Goedel,

I was in my local branch of Conrad today (Stadtlau, bei Wien) and they had the Roco H0 model for about 200 euros. Having read so much about it, I nearly bought the loco, but it would be hard to justify running it on a 1930s Southern Railway branch train (Allhallows Branch)!

If you ever come up to Vienna, just arange to drop by.
Would love to John. I think you need to fit 'pop-up' catenary so you can run something electric and Austrian when noone is looking!

I have now stripped off the horrible paint shown above using Richard's recommendation (thanks!) and the new gold paint has been added! I did try some transfer gold leaf from the same company but found although it matched the decals it was too shinny (i.e. decals are too shinny too) so I scraped most of it off again. I shall trim the gold areas at the ends of the decals and try and 'blend' them to match this new paint since it is an excellent match to the original locomotive (thanks to Private Supplies Company for matching their nearest paint to a picture of the real locomotive I sent).

Anyway, here it is after the first coat! The paint is quite thick and a suspension of metal particles so alas thinning it wouldn't really help. I have found that 'drybrushing' details is the best way to preserve fine detail without clogging it. Masking such small areas around the puffers was too much fiddly so I will touch them up with some grey paint afterwards...




...looks good for a model that has been painted, repainted, depainted, gold leafed, deleafed and painted again! I will be making two models so this one is a practise for the second one which I shall be very careful with!

A second thin coat is next...
 

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Do Minitrix actually sell the body shell as a spare part? If so it may be more economical that stripping a finished version.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
QUOTE (simonj @ 9 Feb 2008, 23:53) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Do Minitrix actually sell the body shell as a spare part? If so it may be more economical that stripping a finished version.
Yes I think so, but you have to choose which pre-painted one you want! Also, this is the Hobbytrain Taurus!! (And it is the same for this too - you can only get prepainted versions!) It is not the original paint that worries me because it is very thin and I just painted over it! It is my painting efforts which are crude in comparison and which I wanted to remove so I could go again!
 

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QUOTE (goedel @ 16 Feb 2008, 13:15) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Yes I think so, but you have to choose which pre-painted one you want! Also, this is the Hobbytrain Taurus!! (And it is the same for this too - you can only get prepainted versions!) It is not the original paint that worries me because it is very thin and I just painted over it! It is my painting efforts which are crude in comparison and which I wanted to remove so I could go again!

Have you tried spraying rather than painting? Would it better to practice on plastic card until you get the finish you want then go for the final go on the model?
 

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There is a very good colour photo of this beastie in the winter 07 edition of the GRS Merkur.

Regards
 
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