[Doug]

Neil has a nice new model - The Trix rebuilt BR05 003. He has kindly reviewed it for us. What a great loco!

Click here for the review

 

[Brian Considine]

Excellent review - thanks Neil, very imformative - what price a Liliput 05 now ?

 

[7113]

An excellent review of an impressive model. Thanks for that Neil.

Having seen the real thing I think it's fair to say the model does it justice.

Regards

 

[adecoaches26point4]

Neil,

very informative review, thank you for giving up your time to do this for us

Just a little snippet on the postwar state of these locos.
The boiler pressure was reduced due to deteriorization of the metals used in its construction, which resulted in a lower top speed and shorter trains and their early demise

But they were designed for high speed, short composites of four to five coaches Pre war, must have been a wonderful sight doing there high speed turns every day of the week

David

 

[dwb]

I noticed you had a new photo in your signature. That's a fine model of an interesting prototype. I wish there were British ex LNER outline locomotives with a motor and sound like that.

Thanks for taking the time to do the review. I enjoyed reading it.

David

 

[ME 26-06]

QUOTE (dwb @ 8 Jan 2008, 20:37) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Thanks for taking the time to do the review. I enjoyed reading it.

David

I second thet.

A fine review of a nice engine. Great!

 

[neil_s_wood]

QUOTE (dbclass50 @ 9 Jan 2008, 00:13) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Excellent review - thanks Neil, very imformative - what price a Liliput 05 now ?
Thanks guys, it really is an impressive piece of work.

Brian it is 280 Euro's from Modelbahn Kramm. I would buy the Trix though.

For all the extra money, it has great sound and smooth motion.

 

[pedromorgan]

I really must dust off the kit for the streamliner. its been sitting in a drawer for over a year now.

Peter

 

[Richard Johnson]

QUOTE (pedromorgan @ 9 Jan 2008, 20:57) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I really must dust off the kit for the streamliner. its been sitting in a drawer for over a year now.

Peter

*** Hi Peter - Your timing is excellent, I'd just looked at the review and was admiring that loco wondering if it'd been produced, I'm a sucker for things that are "different"!

Can you please advise who made the kit for it? - Its a stunning bit of design as a stramlined Steam loco - it'd not have looked out of place in the '60's with that front end - really nice.

Are you sure you'd not prefer to swap it for an English Loco from my collection of kits .... I'd love to build one of them!

Richard

 

[adecoaches26point4]

Sorry its a little off thread, but me thinks the streamlined 05 would be a wonderful peice of kit if it was available as a live steam model, Hornby please

Peter,

The k's kit

if so would be very interested how you tackle making it

David

 

[neil_s_wood]

QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 10 Jan 2008, 01:15) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>*** Hi Peter - Your timing is excellent, I'd just looked at the review and was admiring that loco wondering if it'd been produced, I'm a sucker for things that are "different"!

Can you please advise who made the kit for it? - Its a stunning bit of design as a stramlined Steam loco - it'd not have looked out of place in the '60's with that front end - really nice.

Are you sure you'd not prefer to swap it for an English Loco from my collection of kits .... I'd love to build one of them!

Richard
Liliput actually have a model of the BR05 003 with the original streamlined casing.

There was a bit of speculation on another forum some time ago that doing a live steam streamlined BR05 001 or 002 would be an excellent way in to Germany for Hornby. It certainly would sell.

 

[Richard Johnson]

QUOTE (neil_s_wood @ 10 Jan 2008, 06:26) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Liliput actually have a model of the BR05 003 with the original streamlined casing.

There was a bit of speculation on another forum some time ago that doing a live steam streamlined BR05 001 or 002 would be an excellent way in to Germany for Hornby. It certainly would sell.

***Thanks for that Neil. with the help of Google I found a colour image of the Liliput model and added it here as its an interesting loco.... and if the image is true to model then even the wheel flanges are much nicer than I expected.... (I must admit too that having stripped a few of the Bachmann/Lilliput loco's recently for decoder and sound installs they are nicely designed and constructed...and run very well indeed!

Noting from Adecoaches comment that it may be a Kays kit my interest is lower on the kitbuild - I've made some top models from K's kits but the degree of modification and re-detailing needed takes it closer to a scratchbuilding project than a kitbuild - some of their castings are approximate to say the least! I much prefer brass and nickel silver to whitemetal!

How are the reviews on the Liliput - so you know if the wheel inspection covers are fixed as they are in the image or moveable? I'd be tempted to change them if fixed - I'm hopeful the answer is moveable, as it seems somehow unlikely that an in-service loco of such prestige would run with them as shown in the image!

Other news on the start of my foray into EU models - I have just been given a Piko BR95 01 and a Piko BR82 as a gift for helping an EU modeller with many DCC and sound decoder problems he was having - most unexpected and very gratefully received! Both are very nice locos and they are in excellent condition!

Regards

Richard
DCCconcepts

regards

Richard

 

[neil_s_wood]

Yes Richard, I have the BR05 001 and the wheel inspection covers do not work. They are fixed in the down position in all but two positions. Covers are included if you wish to close up these two remaining wheels. I'd be really surprised if they sold it as depicted on your attachment.

From memory the Trix model was covered all round, i really wish I had paid for that at the time it was available, it was a far better model. The Liliput has clunky running gear and the smoke generator electrics did not work. The smoke generator did work as I removed it and installed it elsewhere. It was however a very good runner and a good puller. Until recently that is. Now it seems to do wheels spins and struggle for grip. Why I do not know, I've had it apart and so have Branchline of Croydon who are usually very good with repairs and neither of us can figure it out. It isn't a missing traction tyre and my best guess is a gear slipping. Shame really as this used to always be on the go on my old layout. Could be I wore it out?

The loco had full streamlining for maximum efficiency and the wheel inspection covers would normally be down when the loco was in operation.

Although this was not always the case

This is front of the Br05 001 in the museum in Nurnberg.

Here it is on the other side, streamlining stripped so you can see inside.

 

[Richard Johnson]

QUOTE (neil_s_wood @ 10 Jan 2008, 12:30) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Now it seems to do wheels spins and struggle for grip. Why I do not know, I've had it apart and so have Branchline of Croydon who are usually very good with repairs and neither of us can figure it out. It isn't a missing traction tyre and my best guess is a gear slipping. Shame really as this used to always be on the go on my old layout. Could be I wore it out?

**Clunky running Gear - it is an older liliput??? I as as the newer ex china ones I've seen have all been very good in that area as far as smoothness and refinement, whereas a couple of the older ones (EU made) were less than lovely.

Yes, Steve at Croydon is usually good at sorting things.

Struggling to grip??? are you being literal or is it just lower in power. If its just grip it won't be worn out - thats a "wheel to rail" problem, not a mechanism wear issue.

ie: Do you mean the mechanism is still smooth but it will now not pull a reasonable load? If its running smoothly but the adhesion is less, it often means that for some reason something is affecting the way that the loco is meeting the track - one axle riding slightly low taking weight off the others, a bogie which has too much track pressure so very so slightly taking weight off the drivers or something similar.

If you want to wrap it up and ship it west I'll look at it.... no promises on how fast I'd do it but there are very few I can't get back on their feet given time and patience. No charge by the way - Slip a tenner in the parcel to cover return post but apart from that the offer is "modeller to modeller"

Richard
DCCconcepts

 

[neil_s_wood]

QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 10 Jan 2008, 14:53) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>**Clunky running Gear - it is an older liliput??? I as as the newer ex china ones I've seen have all been very good in that area as far as smoothness and refinement, whereas a couple of the older ones (EU made) were less than lovely.

Yes, Steve at Croydon is usually good at sorting things.

Struggling to grip??? are you being literal or is it just lower in power. If its just grip it won't be worn out - thats a "wheel to rail" problem, not a mechanism wear issue.

ie: Do you mean the mechanism is still smooth but it will now not pull a reasonable load? If its running smoothly but the adhesion is less, it often means that for some reason something is affecting the way that the loco is meeting the track - one axle riding slightly low taking weight off the others, a bogie which has too much track pressure so very so slightly taking weight off the drivers or something similar.

If you want to wrap it up and ship it west I'll look at it.... no promises on how fast I'd do it but there are very few I can't get back on their feet given time and patience. No charge by the way - Slip a tenner in the parcel to cover return post but apart from that the offer is "modeller to modeller"

Richard
DCCconcepts

I think the running gear is rubbing against the streamlined body shell somewhere and this is where the clanking is coming from.

Yes Steve is very good and has done some very good repair jobs for at a good price. It is a 2003 model and probably Chinese. The wheels are spinning yet not gripping and the loco is stationery. The track is pefectly flat at the areas where it is doing this and the gradients on my new layout are far more gradual than those of my opld one so if anything it should find it easier. The load was never an issue for this loco before. I really can't figure out what has changed? I may try new traction tyres and if this has no result then I will take you up on your offer as it was always a favourite loco and really needs to return to the tracks.

 

[Brian Considine]

To add to the BR05 - I had an early original build on photographic grey.

When new it would outpull anything I had at the time, virtually silent, smooth & would run that slow you could count the wheel spokes as they went round & this was on an old H & M variable transformer controller. Eventually, it lost power & seemed to be down to the motor. This model had a can motor & flywheel in the tender.

The earlier Liliputs like the BR38 & 78's that I had used a five pole open frame motor (similar to an X04) driving the driving wheels through a worn & gear. They either ran very well or like old dogs - long since gone.

Strangely, the only "Bachmann" Liliput I have just does not run well at all - an SNCB 2-6-0 Tank, yet the DB version I have, which is a "Liliput" Liliput runs very smoothly.

 

[Richard Johnson]

QUOTE (dbclass50 @ 10 Jan 2008, 18:26) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>To add to the BR05 - I had an early original build on photographic grey.

When new it would outpull anything I had at the time, virtually silent, smooth & would run that slow you could count the wheel spokes as they went round & this was on an old H & M variable transformer controller. Eventually, it lost power & seemed to be down to the motor. This model had a can motor & flywheel in the tender.

The earlier Liliputs like the BR38 & 78's that I had used a five pole open frame motor (similar to an X04) driving the driving wheels through a worn & gear. They either ran very well or like old dogs - long since gone.

Strangely, the only "Bachmann" Liliput I have just does not run well at all - an SNCB 2-6-0 Tank, yet the DB version I have, which is a "Liliput" Liliput runs very smoothly.

***I wonder....

Bachann had a bad batch of can motors a year or two back. The plastic endcap bearing (from memory) wasn't well seated - it affected US market K4 pacifics and a UK loco (I can't remember which). Bachmann at that time replaced faulty motors without question as it was a truly "epidemic" failure problem.... I wonder if some liliput production was caught up in that.

The initial symptoms were poor power delivery and they ran hot as soon as a load was on them, and as a motor loses efficiency even more - really quickly - when it overheats (and long term it damages the magnet) they couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding.

The last few Newish Liliput loco's I've done have been very sweet runners, all crawling almost imperceptably at speed step one after decoder adjustment, so it can't be all of them!

 

[adecoaches26point4]

Quote dbclass50.
To add to the BR05 - I had an early original build on photographic grey.

When new it would outpull anything I had at the time, virtually silent, smooth & would run that slow you could count the wheel spokes as they went round & this was on an old H & M variable transformer controller. Eventually, it lost power & seemed to be down to the motor. This model had a can motor & flywheel in the tender.
End quote.

Just my two pennies worth.
All of my 05/45/78 have all had Japanese replacement motors and are as good as new performance wise

Those Bl

y awful motors cost Liliput Wien dearly.
David

 

[pedromorgan]

I think it was the A1 that had the problem. they did a recall.

Peter

 

[Andrew Mattock]

One of the problems with the early Liliput Wien 05, and the 45, S3/6 and OeBB class 12 mechanism amongst others was that the notched connector on the motor shaft started slipping on the shaft, so the motor spins away but under load the model hardly moves... take the tender off the track and the wheels spin without load as you would expect... put it back on the track and the motor shaft spins inside the notched connector. So everything sounds and looks OK until you put any load on it. The connector just has a friction fit and it deteriorates with time...