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Yes, I know we have discussed this topic that; why aren't there any British Loco's in HO scale? and that lots of things has been said about it but I want to bring this subject up again and if any Hornby people are reading MRF ( I am sure they are ) would hopefully take notice of it.

The HO market is huge, Brits have a very fine loco range and quite famous ones as well that I personally would like to see in my collection and belive out there in HO land there would be a sizable amount of people thinking like me too.

Examples: A Flying scotsman, a 8F would be perfect starters. ( why am I always bringing up the 8F
)

I don't know, a poll done on this issue among HO people might give them an insight of to start off with which loco, they have all the resources for it; their web site, Hornby international, magazines.... Just ask: What British loco would you like to see in HO scale, or even narrow down your choice to 3 / 4 loco's that you seem more appropriate to produce.

I personally think it is worth thinking about.

Baykal
 

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Lima, Jouef, Rivarossi & Fleishmann (there may be others) have all produced (to differing standards) UK outline HO - I think the fact that Fleischmann are clearing out their stocks of UK HO (2 - Warships & 3 Bullied coaches) says it all.

The locos 4246 in green, 4247 in blue, coaches 5146 1st/3rd, 5147 3rd & 5148 3rd brake are still listed in the 2007/8 catalogue.

There is a British HO Society & of course the resoursful BRITHO of this very forum models UK HO.

I just don't think it will happen, not in my lifetime anyway.

What would I like to see in UK HO - any 2 Bullied Pacifics, 1 - original & 1 rebuilt to go with my rake of FLM coaches (loaned to BRITHO) of course, & maybe some more coaches for the HO Eurostar.
 

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I think the market is too small for a wide range of British locos in HO but some could be economically sucessfull:
8 F was used in a lot of countries so would be my first choice.
A4 Mallard and A3 Flying Scotsman as the most famous ones and are very beautiful so these models could be added to the Rivarossi range. I could imagine that lots of modellers would se these locos in their local hobby shop and buy them by impulse just because of the good looks and the famous names.

Hornby maybe is the wrong company for such models as their production seems to be geared towards greater numbers but could Dapol or Heljan be persuaded?
Thomas
 

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I agree with you. I'd be willing to pay at least 50% more than the current price of an OO engine for an HO one. A Black five must surely be top of the list.

As I said on another thread - consider an OO modeller who wants a better scale/gauge combination. They can either go EM or P4 which would involve ripping up all their track and starting again as well as having to adapt or change all rolling stock in one go. A change to HO would involve no change to track (unless you wanted closer centres for double track lines) and rolling stock could be changed slowly. You could even run a train of HO on the same layout as OO for a while. I don't think that it would look too bad as a temporary measure as long as there were not items of one scale in the same train as items of the other scale.

But let's be pragmatic; it won't happen.

Cheers, Robert.
 

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Robert.....surely if one had an issue with an out-of-scale gauge.......then one also might as well have an issue with the prototype appearance of the track itself?

[Although I agree, one does not necessarily fall in line with the other?]

therefore I suggest that actually ripping up the trackage one has is but a small pain......made smaller by the quantity and quality of the stock one has?

even reverting to 3.5mm scale [british outline],for the purposes of a more correct scale/gauge combination [compared to 4mm, OO gauge?]..surely also leads one to considering the use of more realistic-looking track? Ie, bullhead rail and chairs?

Of which I think there is little or nothing in the trade?

For 3.5mm/foot [HO ] to be of any real use to modellers, a manufacturer is perhaps going to need to supply a reasonable cross-section of locos and stock? [high-profile locos are of little general use?]

This to capture those modellers who are disatisfied with the 4mm scale status quo to the extent they are prepared to make a fresh start altogether?

A chicken and egg scenario?

personally, I would be inclined to look at 3mm scale, or one of the other les popular scales, in an equal light with HO.

Considering that much emphasis will be place on modelling skills, improvisation, etc?
 

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The chance came and went in the mid 70s. If Palitoy and Airfix had followed Lima with HO British stock instead of OO then the better detailing (remember the kick up the backside they gave Margate) could have probably killed off OO then. As it is with the investment in new toolings from Hornby, Kader, Vi Trains, Heljan and now Dapol OO is going to be with for a very long time and none of them are going to produce a range which effectively makes their existing toolings extinct.
 

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British HO is a non-starter. The relevant British modellers are heavily committed to 4mm with its huge trade support - including huge ranges of specialist components - and will not change because it would set them back decades in terms of the range of products available

With the very greatest respect to ebaykal, I don't believe there is much of a market out there amongst HO modellers for British outline stock. Those outside the UK with a strong interest in modelling British railways will almost certainly pursue it in 4mm . My impression is that outside the British Isles, interest in modelling British railways is largely confined to ANZ and Canada, and to a significant degree, though far from exclusively, driven by expatriots . In ANZ , the limited trade support for local prototypes may be a factor . There doesn't seem to be a great deal of interest in modelling British subjects on the Continent, and some recent items in the magazines about the British Railway Modellers of North America suggests it has about 400-500 members

Only a handful of British loco types have ever worked beyond Frethun yards, and Class 66s are already available in HO and TT. That leaves RODs (O4), 8Fs, WDs, and Dean Goods . Most of those only did so in wartime - modelling 1939-45 or 1914-18 used to be somewhat off limits in Britain though the taboo seems to breaking down a bit recently, and I'd imagine the feeling agianst modelling these periods would be ten times stronger in Continental Europe . Nearly all the types concerned are mundane black 2-8-0s : Bachmann's WD in OO hasn't been a best seller from what I can gather , and we still have no RTR ROD in OO , never mind HO
 

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Adding my twopence 'orth to all that. I'm not trying to burst ebaykal's bubble, but it has been tried before. Lima had several HO models in their range and several more in the wings but sales of the existing ones were poor enough to prompt the change back to OO. Rivarossi had a very nice looking Royal Scot and coaches (although I have read somewhere that these were not true HO either). Fleischmann has been mentioned above - pity they chose three different styles of Bulleid coach so they didn't make a "proper" set. Playcraft (Joueff) had an extensive range of budget priced BR HO models back in the 1960s (I know I wanted many of them at the time!).

Some years ago the British HO group tried to commission Heljan to produce a class 37 in HO. That was also stillborn due to not enough interest, ie the market for British HO is simply not big enough to support production of British HO even in limited edition runs.

Times and interests change so, in mitigation, maybe the time is right now, or maybe it'll be sometime in the future, for British HO to emerge as a viable market but, notwithstanding all claims to the contrary, there is not a huge amount of support for British HO modelling.
 

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QUOTE (Ravenser @ 26 Jul 2008, 23:35) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I don't believe there is much of a market out there amongst HO modellers for British outline stock.
Admitted, it will never be huge but based on the feedback we get from HO modelers there is a little more than some people think. Quite a number would like to run the odd UK outline but object to running what amounts to "narrow gauge" to them.
There is of course the 66 & probably enough freight stock & CIWL that could be used without too much work.

But, if any locomotives were produced which ones are likely to sell ?
Famous locomotives such as the Mallard & Flying Scotsman would sell because they are famous (the latter could actually be used on some US & Australian layouts) & more "mundane" locomotives such as the 8F for the simple reason that they wandered about all over the place - there is also the "USA 0-6-0" as well. Another contender would be the GWR Prairie as one of them is AFAIK in Poland at the moment.
 

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QUOTE (SRman @ 27 Jul 2008, 02:57) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Times and interests change so, in mitigation, maybe the time is right now, or maybe it'll be sometime in the future, for British HO to emerge as a viable market but, notwithstanding all claims to the contrary, there is not a huge amount of support for British HO modelling.

The most recent missed opportunity was the opening of the channel tunnel, combined with the advent of privatisation, both of which have seen quantities of new equipment fairly rapidly displacing legacy stock built by BR. And all of this was diesel or electric, so none of the problems with outside valve gear and splashers that made the OO compromise necessary. If all the RTR models based on prototypes entering service post channel tunnel opening had been made HO, a decent contemporary HO RTR based layout would be a real possibility now.

But for the steam railway, and the immediate BR follow on, 4mm OO it is, and will remain.
 

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QUOTE Admitted, it will never be huge but based on the feedback we get from HO modelers there is a little more than some people think. Quite a number would like to run the odd UK outline but object to running what amounts to "narrow gauge" to them

this demonstrates the existence of a different breed of railway modelling enthusiast......what I might loosely call,''the collector?''

they are unlikely to want to base an entire layout on UK HO......so in that respect a market for odd items of interest may exist?

However.....can someone explain why the likes of Roco, as an example, failed to actually produce a UK variant of a model which is plainly of a UK prototype, used on the continent?? I'm thinking of the Dutch version of the 08 shunter?

Is it perhaps because they too see a diminished market?
 

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I´d prefer any company but Hornby to release these British HO models.

Considering the horrendous quality issues continental HO modellers have to cope with concerning Hornby models, I fear that these issues alone, should they prevail in UK outline HO models that may be released, that these issues could strangle any effort to a fast, predictable death.
 

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QUOTE (ben100 @ 27 Jul 2008, 22:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Nobody ever seems to mention continental outline models in OO?
Will that ever see the day?

Ummmm - think what are you asking for - HO correct gauge is 16.5mm.... so its already "OO ready" in fact and you can run as much of it as you like, actually increasing the average accuracy of your layout in relation to loco and track gauge :) :)

Or perhaps:

If continental models were made on OO would you like the track to become 18.82mm gauge or the track to narrow to about 15mm so it has the same incorrect wheels to track relationship as English OO?

With tongue in cheek....

Richard
 

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QUOTE (alastairq @ 27 Jul 2008, 20:13) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>this demonstrates the existence of a different breed of railway modelling enthusiast......what I might loosely call,''the collector?''

they are unlikely to want to base an entire layout on UK HO......so in that respect a market for odd items of interest may exist?

However.....can someone explain why the likes of Roco, as an example, failed to actually produce a UK variant of a model which is plainly of a UK prototype, used on the continent?? I'm thinking of the Dutch version of the 08 shunter?

Is it perhaps because they too see a diminished market?

***Ummm You mean this one Alistair?? Roco model number 63922 - admittedly Danish railways, but it looks very 08 to me.

Richard
 

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yep..but the one's I've seen have been in Dutch livery..........plus, the idea isn't actually new....the HO people have been converting this for years.....

but it does beg the question, when continental makers [can't spell 'manufacturers'] are so busy issueing models in a multitude of liveries, epochs, styles, etc.....why not a simple black or blue 08, minus those headlamps, of course?
 

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QUOTE Ummmm - think what are you asking for - HO correct gauge is 16.5mm.... so its already "OO ready" in fact and you can run as much of it as you like, actually increasing the average accuracy of your layout in relation to loco and track gauge :) :)

Or perhaps:

If continental models were made on OO would you like the track to become 18.82mm gauge or the track to narrow to about 15mm so it has the same incorrect wheels to track relationship as English OO?

now, I believe that was done, many moons ago.....however, the track gauge really is an irrelevance nowadays,,,seeing as the continental makers have been happy to produce Irish prototypes to run on what is, for them, narrow gauge?

and.....what about the Japanese models, designed to run on 16.5mm gauge track, which is quite 'out of gauge' for the prototype?

then there's the issue of 'scale?'

when Rivarossi [i think it was] used a different ratio to all the others?????

then there's the issue of coaches which weren't long enough? [1:100 scale length??]

as has been pointed out many times.....the track GAUGE can only really be noticed when viewing head-on?

If the APPEARANCE of the track reflects what one see's on the prototype, then the illusion is complete.
 

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QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 27 Jul 2008, 14:34) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>***Ummm You mean this one Alistair?? Roco model number 63922 - admittedly Danish railways, but it looks very 08 to me.

Richard
Been available in the Dutch version off & on (BRITHO has one) - although AFAIK it's not actually an 08.

Another ex UK loco used in over the water was the EM2.
 
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