[alastairq]

Robert.....surely if one had an issue with an out-of-scale gauge.......then one also might as well have an issue with the prototype appearance of the track itself?

[Although I agree, one does not necessarily fall in line with the other?]

therefore I suggest that actually ripping up the trackage one has is but a small pain......made smaller by the quantity and quality of the stock one has?

even reverting to 3.5mm scale [british outline],for the purposes of a more correct scale/gauge combination [compared to 4mm, OO gauge?]..surely also leads one to considering the use of more realistic-looking track? Ie, bullhead rail and chairs?

Of which I think there is little or nothing in the trade?

For 3.5mm/foot [HO ] to be of any real use to modellers, a manufacturer is perhaps going to need to supply a reasonable cross-section of locos and stock? [high-profile locos are of little general use?]

This to capture those modellers who are disatisfied with the 4mm scale status quo to the extent they are prepared to make a fresh start altogether?

A chicken and egg scenario?

personally, I would be inclined to look at 3mm scale, or one of the other les popular scales, in an equal light with HO.

Considering that much emphasis will be place on modelling skills, improvisation, etc?

 

[alastairq]

QUOTE Admitted, it will never be huge but based on the feedback we get from HO modelers there is a little more than some people think. Quite a number would like to run the odd UK outline but object to running what amounts to "narrow gauge" to them

this demonstrates the existence of a different breed of railway modelling enthusiast......what I might loosely call,''the collector?''

they are unlikely to want to base an entire layout on UK HO......so in that respect a market for odd items of interest may exist?

However.....can someone explain why the likes of Roco, as an example, failed to actually produce a UK variant of a model which is plainly of a UK prototype, used on the continent?? I'm thinking of the Dutch version of the 08 shunter?

Is it perhaps because they too see a diminished market?

 

[alastairq]

yep..but the one's I've seen have been in Dutch livery..........plus, the idea isn't actually new....the HO people have been converting this for years.....

but it does beg the question, when continental makers [can't spell 'manufacturers'] are so busy issueing models in a multitude of liveries, epochs, styles, etc.....why not a simple black or blue 08, minus those headlamps, of course?

 

[alastairq]

QUOTE Ummmm - think what are you asking for - HO correct gauge is 16.5mm.... so its already "OO ready" in fact and you can run as much of it as you like, actually increasing the average accuracy of your layout in relation to loco and track gauge

Or perhaps:

If continental models were made on OO would you like the track to become 18.82mm gauge or the track to narrow to about 15mm so it has the same incorrect wheels to track relationship as English OO?

now, I believe that was done, many moons ago.....however, the track gauge really is an irrelevance nowadays,,,seeing as the continental makers have been happy to produce Irish prototypes to run on what is, for them, narrow gauge?

and.....what about the Japanese models, designed to run on 16.5mm gauge track, which is quite 'out of gauge' for the prototype?

then there's the issue of 'scale?'

when Rivarossi [i think it was] used a different ratio to all the others?????

then there's the issue of coaches which weren't long enough? [1:100 scale length??]

as has been pointed out many times.....the track GAUGE can only really be noticed when viewing head-on?

If the APPEARANCE of the track reflects what one see's on the prototype, then the illusion is complete.

 

[alastairq]

QUOTE Also the idea may be a little alien to the european mainstream manufactures.

which neatly brings us back to the start of the thread?

 

[alastairq]

of course, there was/is always that trusty old faithful in 4mm scale..the Airfix/Dapol Interfrigo wagon?

 

[alastairq]

anways...why WOULD a 4mm modeller really want any continental models running?

Imagine if a 4 mm scale model of that Chinese locomotive that lurks in the NRM York, were to be made and bought?

One journey round one's layout would see all the bridges ripped out, and platforms all shuffled up to one end.....?

 

[alastairq]

but then...they're really BRITISH models, used on the continong......

 

[alastairq]

QUOTE Concerning the scale/track width relation of Japanese HO models I would like to admit that due to the scale used (1:80) proportions of the modelled rolling stock and track width are correct. In contrast to Spain and Ireland where 1:87 scale rolling stock on H0 tracks indeed are sort of narrow gauge models, the Japanese Market is big enough. In case of Ireland and Spain, the compromise of offering 1:87 scale models has to be accepted due to the overturn of these markets does not seem to justify models in a separate scale (i.e. 1:94).

of course.....

so.....the critiscms and long -held views concerning the existance of OO gauge [4mm scale], and it's more accurate derivatives [EM, P4,S4,etc], the why's and wherefores are not particularly unique to Britsh outline models......amazingly the modeling/collecting world remain generally silent regarding all the above- listed anomalies.

In the end, the compromises are, and always have been, down to expediency.

The paucity of British-outline HO models will remain so, simply because there is no percieved market for them........and Hornby are unlikely to be prevailed upon to fill that hole....

 

[alastairq]

let's face it.......IF one were wholly upset by the issue of scales and gauges.[which, internationally, does not seem to be the case?]...then why bother even with HO UK outline?

when....there is a thoroughly viable, well-backed [by the trade] scale for UK prototypes with 3 mm scale?

This gives but only a slightly smaller proportionality, a huge advantage in space needed, yet without the watchmaker's eyesight demands of N or 2mm scales?

I actually believe...[track gauge apart] that Tri-ang got it ever so right back in the early 1960's with their TT range.......[it even got the Tri-ang XT60 motor onto the mass market, ideal for small, 4mm scale engines]........but...for TT it was really the right place at the wrong time.........40 years on, with modern manufacturing techniques we are now so familiar with, and the shoebox home mentality we are compelled to subscribe to, who knows what we might be arguing about today???

12mm gauge, or 14.4mm gauge??

 

[alastairq]

QUOTE but I still cannot accept the supposedly clever rationalisations / arguments that are constantly created to defend the conscious and unnecessary bastardisation of accuracy that is UK OO scale.

but is it OK to attack OO?

when all over the Model railway/road field are, and have been, far greater an equally ''un-necessary'' compromises [QUOTE and unnecessary bastardisation].....of scales, gauges ratios,etc??

I view today's OO models as simply taking advantage of a close, common track gauge........the same sort of idea as perhaps Fleischmann's Magic train?

or N gauge?

or whatever?

today, it is all about expediency.

which I am happy to employ, not being a model engineer, or even a passably good modeller.