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· Just another modeller
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QUOTE (ben100 @ 27 Jul 2008, 22:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Nobody ever seems to mention continental outline models in OO?
Will that ever see the day?

Ummmm - think what are you asking for - HO correct gauge is 16.5mm.... so its already "OO ready" in fact and you can run as much of it as you like, actually increasing the average accuracy of your layout in relation to loco and track gauge :) :)

Or perhaps:

If continental models were made on OO would you like the track to become 18.82mm gauge or the track to narrow to about 15mm so it has the same incorrect wheels to track relationship as English OO?

With tongue in cheek....

Richard
 

· Just another modeller
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QUOTE (alastairq @ 27 Jul 2008, 20:13) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>this demonstrates the existence of a different breed of railway modelling enthusiast......what I might loosely call,''the collector?''

they are unlikely to want to base an entire layout on UK HO......so in that respect a market for odd items of interest may exist?

However.....can someone explain why the likes of Roco, as an example, failed to actually produce a UK variant of a model which is plainly of a UK prototype, used on the continent?? I'm thinking of the Dutch version of the 08 shunter?

Is it perhaps because they too see a diminished market?

***Ummm You mean this one Alistair?? Roco model number 63922 - admittedly Danish railways, but it looks very 08 to me.

Richard
 

· Just another modeller
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QUOTE (Brian Considine @ 4 Aug 2008, 14:27) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>European manufactures at the time simply did not understand the need for a hybrid scale/gauge.

*** I don't think they are alone. It was insanity then and its institutionalised insanity now.

I've seen all the arguments for 4mm scale and 16.5 and they didn't wash many years ago and they don't wash now. WHY in heaven when "HO" already existed "OO" wasn't left as 4mm scale and 19mm gauge I will never understand!

Its not a new issue - here's a clip from a UK mag back in January........ 1937! (mag called "Model Railways Locomotive Album" )

Richard
DCCconcepts
 

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QUOTE (Ravenser @ 4 Aug 2008, 16:16) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Quite simply HO was invented after 4mm scale , and that 1937 cutting is rather tendentious - and would have been seen so at the time.

The sequence is - Bing table top - 5/8" gauge , scale questionable

1924 - Greenly prints a table declaring that this is called OO, with 4mm scale, 5/8" gauge

Late 1924 - some modellers from south London sketch out a scale version based on a scale of 3.5mm

1926 - appearance of an alternative proposal based on 4mm but 19mm gauge

Late 1926 - "A name for 3.5mm gauge ( sic) is coming into use in some corners of the model railway world. This is H0 gauge which means half '0' gauge, to distinguish it from 4mm scale, which is adopted in the trade for '00' gauge".

Detailed reference here :

History of OO

I've never heard of the magazine Richard Johnson refers to, but it looks like an early attempt to talk OO out of existance

***The order of invention is totally irrelevant as both predate the letter AND a wider finescale consciousness in the hobby. I'd never heard of the publication before this was drawn to my attention either....

To me Greenly and anything to do with "scale modelling" shouldn't be used in the same sentence....

So... Yes, perhaps, and yes, it was probably one of the series of letters to the editor that has continued from probably prior to then through to now and will probably never stop - and accepting that commercial convenience probably created the scale gauge compromise, it still was not necessarily a sane move when by the time that letter was written, there were already clear standards accepted for 4mm scale / 19mm gauge track....and a fine wheel which would have allowed its adoption had already been made and trialled.... That, to me, is the point.... it would have been possible to getit right, accepting that manufacturers would have needed better precision in valve gear than they have usually achieved given the sloppyness that 16.5 allows them.

Whats done is done though - and its no longer worth raising blood pressure over. UK HO will never be a commercial success, too much OO water under the bridge.

Personally I no longer really care on a practical level - I model both ways in 4mm scale on occasion - and find one no harder to build a loco in than the other.

I gave up on debating the whole scale gauge thing long ago as its not worth tilting at windmills when there's so much modelling to do and enjoy - but I still cannot accept the supposedly clever rationalisations / arguments that are constantly created to defend the conscious and unnecessary bastardisation of accuracy that is UK OO scale.

Richard
 
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