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Hi Guys,
I am new to model railways, and in my 63rd year, the last being a Triang Standard Grey Track Set in the mid 1950's.

I am at present building up a Triang layout from that era of the Standard Track, and have more than enough track, trains, and accessories to build an 8x4 layout, of which the base has been already built, and splits into 3 sections for easy transportation.

I have an Hammant and Morgan Duel controller, but to keep as much of the layout as original as possible. I also have a Triang P5 Power Controller which has fault and would like some help in rectifying the fault if possible.

I have power from the 12v DC Uncontrolled output, and the 15v AC Output.

Sadly, there is no power from the 12v DC Controlled Output, which I need to run the trains.

When putting a meter on the Output connectors it does have a reading of power just in one place just after the neutral position when I turn the speed control to forward. Turn the controller a bit more and the power is gone. In reverse there is no power at all showing on the meter.

Years ago I would have known somebody whom I could have taken it to, and with their knowledge would have worked out of how the Power Controller works, and most probably could have fixed it.

Can any body help, in advising what the fault may be, and is it possible to fix it, and where.

I live in Cornwall.

Thanks.
 

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Hi Dave & welcome to MRF.

In your controller there will be a resistance mat & some brass/phospher bronze "wipers" - it may be possible to adjust the wipers but the mats also wear out.

Best option would, as Gavin says try ebay.

Don't forget to post some pictures.
 

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QUOTE (Dave Saunby @ 5 Feb 2013, 20:33) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Thanks for your reply's.

I got this one on Ebay!!!

What ever happened to the guys who could fix anything??

To answer my own question, "Not many left now"

There is another part to that answer "not cost-effective to fix".

Just had another thought (& would need doing by a "compentant person") - you could look into the possibility of building a current controller into the original case - that way you would have the retro look with nice up to date electronics & motor control ?
 

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QUOTE (Brian Considine @ 5 Feb 2013, 18:26) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi Dave & welcome to MRF.

In your controller there will be a resistance mat & some brass/phospher bronze "wipers" - it may be possible to adjust the wipers but the mats also wear out.

Best option would, as Gavin says try ebay.

Don't forget to post some pictures.

The Tri-ang controllers used to be screwed together. Before H&S...



As Brian says, the parts do wear out, and they are no longer made new...

I did have two Tri-ang controllers, and took them both to bits, and made a good one from the best bits (NOT for the faint hearted, and I made sure to test for any escaping currents with a meter.)

One had been overheated so much that the encapsulating resin had boiled off and collected on the base plate!


The H & M Duette is pretty "bomb proof".

I see that you are using "Standard" track. Well done you.
This is not a common decision these days, as the supply of useable track is getting smaller.

I trust that you are aware that the earlier Cellulose Acetate track bases can distort, so losing the true gauge and alignment of the rails?

The post 1956 Standard track was made from Polystyrene Plastic, and is a far better bet.

It is also possible to replace the rails in Standard track with those from Series 3 track (the legths are the same), or even use the longer Super 4 straight rails on multiple Standard track bases, to cut down on rail joints. Super 4 curves are a different radius, but the rails can be modified to fit to Standard bases.

Are you aware of the Tri-ang Society, and the Train Collectors Society?

A "Standard Track" Layout Idea?

 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I have just laid the outer loop 8x4ft plain track, continuous, no points, and connected power.

I have cleaned to rails with a very fine rubbing block, and that all the track joints are connected correctly.

The problem is that the test loco (Hornby) is running very erratically. On some parts of the track it goes like the clappers, and on other parts it struggles to keep going, and sometimes stops, and with a gentle nudge it's off again.

I have to keep it to a fairly high speed, to keep it going on a complete loop.

It won't run round at low speed.

Any idea where I should look for the problem. Could it be the track joints not clean enough, or a little rusty making resistance to the power flow on certain parts of the loop?

Any help appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
QUOTE (sarah @ 13 Feb 2013, 19:42) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The Tri-ang controllers used to be screwed together. Before H&S...

As Brian says, the parts do wear out, and they are no longer made new...

I did have two Tri-ang controllers, and took them both to bits, and made a good one from the best bits (NOT for the faint hearted, and I made sure to test for any escaping currents with a meter.)

One had been overheated so much that the encapsulating resin had boiled off and collected on the base plate!


The H & M Duette is pretty "bomb proof".

I see that you are using "Standard" track. Well done you.
This is not a common decision these days, as the supply of useable track is getting smaller.

I trust that you are aware that the earlier Cellulose Acetate track bases can distort, so losing the true gauge and alignment of the rails?

The post 1956 Standard track was made from Polystyrene Plastic, and is a far better bet.

It is also possible to replace the rails in Standard track with those from Series 3 track (the legths are the same), or even use the longer Super 4 straight rails on multiple Standard track bases, to cut down on rail joints. Super 4 curves are a different radius, but the rails can be modified to fit to Standard bases.

Are you aware of the Tri-ang Society, and the Train Collectors Society?

A "Standard Track" Layout Idea?

Thanks for the info.

We found the fault on the P5 controller. The speed control windings had broken, and for some reason would not take solder to rejoin.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
My Triang project seems to be going one step forwards, and two steps backwards at this present moment.

My Princess Victoria loco, which was running perfectly has now ceased to function.

When removing it from the track for inspection, one of the electrical brushes fell out, which must have been the cause of it's will to function.

Please can anybody give me a step by step guide on how to replace the brush, and a reason why it should have fallen out in the first place?

Below is my planned layout to date. Loads more to add.

Many thanks.



Two thirds of the base construction using bullet dowels, and bolts to keep it together, with 9mm ply on top.

There are 3 steel fold away trestles underneath.





From now on I will be using this topic site to report on my project progress, and and help I may need when problems arise.
 

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*** That is becasue the wire is nickel-chromium (NiChrome) wire. It needs a different flux and a solder with lead/tin/silver in it.

An old toaster element can be handy to replace it. If you unwind it totally and measure the length, you could also buy NiChrome wire from an electronics supply house and re-wind it.

If exactly the same diameter isn't available (within 0.1mm) rejoin the two broken bits temporarily by twisting together tightly them measure the overall resistance.

Buy the nearest diameter and measure the resistance along its length until you reach the same figure or slightly more, then cut to THAT length and use it to re-wind the mat. (if its thinner the replacement will need to be be shorter, if fatter it will need to be longer)

regards

Richard

QUOTE (Dave Saunby @ 18 Feb 2013, 04:26) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Thanks for the info.

We found the fault on the P5 controller. The speed control windings had broken, and for some reason would not take solder to rejoin.
 

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I am now ready to cover the base board with a 8'x4' roll of of American made "Woodland Scenics" Ready Grass vinyl mat which I purchased from my local Model Railway Shop.

I am thinking about using Ever Build 501 Universal PVA Bond Multi Purpose Adhesive to stick it down on the 9mm plywood top of my baseboard.

Could anyone advise if this is the best type of glue to use, giving me time to make adjustments etc when laying the mat?

If yes, can I water the PVA down slightly, to make it go further, or should it be used at full strength applying to both surfaces as it say's on the container.

I am hoping that I can apply the PVA to the baseboard "only" giving it a good covering, allowing for soaking in to the plywood, and then slowly rolling out the mat getting rid of any air bubbles as I go.

Thanks.
 

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*** This is how I would do it if I didn't use spray glue, which might be a little unforgiving to work with on such a big sheet especially if there is only one pair of hands to do it with.

Take a portion of the PVA glue and thin it with Windex (window cleaner), then roll it onto the board surface as a primer. Let it get mostly dry.

With the rest, add 1 part warm water and 1 part Methylated spirits to several parts glue (or 2 parts Windex to 2 parts glue) and roll it onto the back of the sheet.

Mist the area you will place it with Windex to re-damp it and make it tacky again. Wait a couple of minutes then lay the sheet...

8x4 is a big sheet to lay. Start at the middle and ease it out in both directions, rubbing down with a clean dry tea towel of similar. if it takes a while re-damp the un-laid bit with Windex to keep it tacky.

Regards

Richard
 

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Thanks for the advice Richard.

I gave the baseboard 2 watered down coats of PVA, and then 1 full strength.

Because as you say an 8'x4' sheet would be difficult to cover, so rather than risk starting from the middle and working outwards, I lined the roll up at the end with 2" overhang, and slowly unrolled it, smoothing it out as I went, adding more PVA where needed.

It went on perfectly, looks just like a snooker table!!

I just hope that when I check it in the morning, that it has stuck good.

Next tricky job will be to cut through the mat in 2 places where the 3 section baseboard is joined.

I have to be very careful here, making sure the knife blade follows the join, so I get a perfect straight edge. This will take a little bit of skill with a straight edge and possibly another pair of hands.

I can't afford to mess up here.

Prototype Layout

Anyone for a game of snooker??
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Unfortunatly for some reason it did not stick.

I have cleaned off the PVA from the base and mat with warm water, and purchased Unibond Super PVA which is a lot better quality than the cheaper one I used.

The back of the vinyl base mat is very smooth. Maybe that is the reason why the PVA did not take, because there is nothing to key to.

If it does not work this time, then I will ditch the idea of the purpose made mat, which I paid good money for, and paint the base with the correct colour.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Unibond-260949-S...id=462353266197
 

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*** Did you use the alcohol in the mix as I recommended?

It aids flow and penetration of the glue.. which is why I suggested it. Even a misting with windex (which contains alcohol) will make a big difference.

A big sheet loke that also needs rolling into place - The rolling is important even if it looks flat as its laid... its not enough just to lay it...

Richard
 

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Moorings.....D.S.

Nice, takes me back a bit............


Is your track,nailed down yet ? if not, your long straights,can be helped, by purchasing a metre length steel rule for £1 @ Poundland.
(Rumours of a Sale,@ Easter), also a straight track-setter,for use between the rails, does help with set track.

QUOTE It went on perfectly, looks just like a snooker table!!..
...LF&T's, layout, doubles as a table tennis...........table............
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 27 Mar 2013, 02:26) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>*** Did you use the alcohol in the mix as I recommended?

It aids flow and penetration of the glue.. which is why I suggested it. Even a misting with windex (which contains alcohol) will make a big difference.

A big sheet loke that also needs rolling into place - The rolling is important even if it looks flat as its laid... its not enough just to lay it...

Richard

Hi Richard,

No, I had already laid the mat by the time I read your advice.

I did water down the first coat to cover the base so it soaked in to the ply as it said on the bottle, and then a second full strength, before rolling our the mat slowly, pushing out any air bubbles and pressing down as I went.

I have a problem getting Windex where I live.

Is there another product made in the UK found on supermarket/shop shelves, that contains alcohol I could use?

I have several window cleaners in the house, but they don't list what is in it on the label.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
QUOTE (David Todd @ 27 Mar 2013, 06:33) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Moorings.....D.S.

Nice, takes me back a bit............


Is your track,nailed down yet ? if not, your long straights,can be helped, by purchasing a metre length steel rule for £1 @ Poundland.
(Rumours of a Sale,@ Easter), also a straight track-setter,for use between the rails, does help with set track.

..
...LF&T's, layout, doubles as a table tennis...........table............


Hi David,
I have a 4ft long straight edge to line up the track before screwing down with stainless steel screws through the holes in the track.

Once the layout is screwed down, I have to cut through the track at the 2 baseboard joins with a junior hacksaw.

This will take a little bit of skill on my part to line the cut up with the join. My eye sight is not what it used to be.

Thanks for your interest.
 
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