[Ruffnut Thorston]

Hi.

No, I don't know the names for the colours. Probably something under the BS. scheme.

Anyway, the colours you have look good.

You may find something of interest here.

http://www.daveangell.co.uk/

Dave is a Tri-ang Collector, and a member of the Tri-ang Society.

No connection, apart from the Tri-ang Society, and I have had some small dealings with him.

 

[Dave Saunby]

Thanks Sarah and Alan.

 

[Dave Saunby]

Please can anyone tell me if the very early 1950's Triang MK2 couplings are compatible with the later MK3 couplings which I believe replaced the MK2 in the late 1950's, as I have heard that they sometimes disconnect when going round bends?

 

[SRman]

They can be run together but there is no positive locking under tension (as the mark 3's name suggests!). What this means is that if there is any uneven track the couplings may possibly disengage. The mark 2s cannot be run forwards over a springy uncoupling ramp intended for the mark 3s as the hooks will simply spring up and disengage.

If you are prepared to do a bit of work on the mark 2s they can be modified to allow more positive engagement - that depends on whether you are a collector and wish to keep everything mint and as it left the factory or not. I have done it to a couple of old utility vans and a southern electric unit and the method is as follows:

1. You have to grind or file a shallower depth into the crossbar of the mark 2 coupling to allow the mark 3 hook to actually hook under the bar

2. The deep triangular portion of the hook of the mark 2 needs a notch filed or ground into the back of the triangle where it joins the straight bit, allowing this hook to engage under the crossbar of the mark 3 coupling.

I achieved both of these tasks with a Dremel and some small milling tools. Be aware that the crossbar on the mark 2 will be rendered relatively weak because of the thinning operation.

 

[Dave Saunby]

I don't think I will be going that far to make the couplings compatible.

The 3 section baseboard is now finished, and is now ready for designing and laying the track.

It is supported by 4 steel folding trestles, with beer mats as shims to take up any slack so it sits even and flat.

Anyone for snooker, without pockets???

 

[Ruffnut Thorston]

QUOTE (Dave Saunby @ 27 Jul 2013, 07:09) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Please can anyone tell me if the very early 1950's Triang MK2 couplings are compatible with the later MK3 couplings which I believe replaced the MK2 in the late 1950's, as I have heard that they sometimes disconnect when going round bends?

The uncoupling problems are correct. The MK II has no "return" on the hook or bar, which the MKIII "tension lock" has.

The "official" Tri-ang method of stopping unintentional uncoupling of the MKII couplings was to use a small ring over the coupling bars of the two adjoining vehicles.

It could be possible to use some wire rod to couple MkII and MkIII couplings in the same way. As th eMKIII coupling bar is a loop, the "ring" would need to be formed around the MkIII bar (or a loop like a Key Ring?)

I hope this makes some kind of sense...

MkIIa Coupling (No "skid" on hook dropper). 1952-

MKIIb Coupling Skid "weight" added to hook dropper to help the hook drop and stay down better. -1958-9

MkIII Coupling. Tension Lock. 1959 -

 

[Dave Saunby]

Thanks for all the info on couplings.

Next question.

I am thinking about raising the std grey track with Triang piers and sidewalls, from about midway down the outer edge of my 8'x4' baseboard, over a girder bridge around the top edge, and then back down the other side to continue the rest of the outer loop on the base.

Please could anyone tell me approximatly how my piers and sidewalls I would require to complete this task, and is it very successful regarding stability, and with the engines having to pull uphill?

I am using R106 outer radius curves on the top and bottom ends, with std curves on the inner line of my double track which runs around the perimeter of my baseboard.

 

[Grifter_Guru]

Without trying to teach granny to suck eggs;

You will need to look at how steep the resultant incline is when piers are used,

Depending on the length of run previous to and the total rise of track, the incline may be too steep for a locomotive to successfully climb it.

What is the maximum pier height you intend to use?
How long is the run between level and raised track?

 

[Ruffnut Thorston]

QUOTE (Dave Saunby @ 21 Aug 2013, 18:21) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Thanks for all the info on couplings.

Next question.

I am thinking about raising the std grey track with Triang piers and sidewalls, from about midway down the outer edge of my 8'x4' baseboard, over a girder bridge around the top edge, and then back down the other side to continue the rest of the outer loop on the base.

Please could anyone tell me approximatly how my piers and sidewalls I would require to complete this task, and is it very successful regarding stability, and with the engines having to pull uphill?

I am using R106 outer radius curves on the top and bottom ends, with std curves on the inner line of my double track which runs around the perimeter of my baseboard.

The original Tri-ang Railways R.79 Incline piers have the lugs to locate Standard Track. The incline piers also have the top at a slight angle, and so have to be used the right way around. It is usual to have a pier at every track joint.

They come as a set, I think I remember there being 6 piers in the R.79 set. There is also the High Level Piers, which are "flat" on the top, and are the same height as the bridge deck of the Girder Bridge when mounted on the Tri-ang Bridge Piers. (Also the Gravity Unloading Bridge when mounted on the arched bridge piers.)

It is recommended that as much of the upward incline is on the straight, as the incline is quite steep. It is however as designed at Margate!

The Standard Track sidewalls are the same length as the track sections, so you will need a pair for each track section.

The straight ones are the same for both sides, the curved ones come as an inner and an outer. There are no middle sections, as Standard Track is solid.

A complete incline with walls is quite rigid, and the piers are designed to be pinned down to the board ...and looks quite good too.

The outer or second radius walls are the harder to find, as they were not made for as long as the others...

 

[Dave Saunby]

Sarah. Thanks for your helpful reply.

I will most probably use the inner track for the inclined section which uses the standard curves.

As for the steepness of the incline, I am thinking about using 2 Princess Elizabeth engines (double header) to pull the 5 or 6 coach passenger train up the slope, or a 2 coach branch line train.

I think it will be a case of trial and error, when I get round to laying the track.

I am still undecided, whether or not I am going to screw the track down to the baseboard, which would mean a lot more work in cutting the track at the baseboard joints, soldering wires, and drilling holes in my nice new baseboard, or just laying it on the baseboard, and dismantling and assembling it in 3 or 4 track length sections, carried in a special container.

This way, would enable me to change the layout easily, without leaving unsightly holes everywhere.

 

[Ruffnut Thorston]

I found that a "normal" train of around 3-4 coaches went up the Tri-ang incline behind a Princess loco with no bother.

It is coming down that has to be watched, as the train can go so fast it flies off the track on the bend at the bottom of the hill!

You do need to "drive" the train, power up the hill, slow down down the hill.

Another method for the layout could be fixing most track down, and having removable sections to bridge the board joints.

I used this method for a semi-permanently laid (Super 4 track) layout on two boards. The joints were bridged with straight tracks, inserted between the fixed sections as the two boards were brought together

 

[Dave Saunby]

Thanks for the advice Sarah.

I would imagine that when fitting the non fixed sections of track over the baseboard joints when the baseboard sections are being lined up and drawn together is a tricky operation.

 

[Grifter_Guru]

Not as tricky as you would think if you employ flat "V"wedges under the tracks slotting into a corresponding open "V" taper on the other side

To get an idea of what I mean, open two fingers as if making the "Victory V" sign of churchill, you will instantly understand what I mean by the open V tape and the V taper wedge system.

It makes life so much easier as when set correctly, they become self aligning.

As to the idea mentioned about bridging tracks, I had thought of that myself but failed to mention it.

 

[Ruffnut Thorston]

QUOTE (Dave Saunby @ 23 Aug 2013, 21:06) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Thanks for the advice Sarah.

I would imagine that when fitting the non fixed sections of track over the baseboard joints when the baseboard sections are being lined up and drawn together is a tricky operation.

There were only 4 bridge straights, it was a double track oval.

As it turned out, we only set the layout up a couple of times before it was dismantled.

GG..

I like the wedge idea...

 

[Grifter_Guru]

Sarah,

The "V" wedge alignment is a solution I employed for re-aligning the main four sections for Memory Lane.

 

[Dave Saunby]

Can anyone please advise me how I can fit in an elevated section of track into my layout, using the girder bridge (center), and the standard piers and bridge supports on the right hand side of the baseboard? I have the sidewalls for the elevated section.

If I can get this elevated section fitted in to my layout, which consists of 3 main loops, plus sidings and turntable, I will be nearing completion, and all that remains is the wiring to 3 power controllers, and to fit the platforms, station buildings, signal box's, signals, water towers, footbridges, tunnels, level crossings etc.

Thankyou, in anticipation.

 

[Dave Saunby]

..

 

[Alan D]

I know you've taken a long time over this project, Dave, but I can see by that last picture, it's all coming together beautifully.

As for the incline, is there not an early Tri-ang track-plan book that wood help or even one of the very early Hornby track-plan books. which would give you an idea how to achieve such a thing.

 

[Dave Saunby]

Thankyou for your reply Alan.

Yes, I do have track plans of early layouts with elevated sections, but none of them to my knowledge show an elevated section with my basic layout of 3 standard circuits running 3 trains at the same time, interlinked together by points, leading to the centre section of sidings and a turntable.

I was hoping that by fitting in an elevated section of track, I could possibly run 4 trains continuously at the same time making 4 circuits.

I have a deadline of 30th November to complete my project for my first exhibition.

Also I am looking for a computer image of the Triang logo, the same as printed on the box's, incorporating "Made in England by Rovex Scale Models Limited", so I can get it blown up to fit on to 2 X 4ft X 1ft boards, which will make up the baseboard back board of 8ft when joined together.

If I can obtain a computer image of what I am looking for, it would save a lot of expense, by not having a box scanned etc, which pushes the price up.

Someone, somewhere must have this computer image.

Only thing missing of this logo is the "Made in England by Rovex Models Limited", which runs across the bottom.

The signmaker cannot use this image, because it is not high enough quality, and cannot produce a sharp edge, and would also break up when blown up to a larger size.

 

[Dave Saunby]

I am on the lookout for R74 high level piers. If anyone has a few spare one's kicking around, please contact me [email protected] or 01326 315285 evenings.