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I think we've now reached the point where this should be turned into a thread, to avoid discussion disrupting other threads:

What is actually available in terms of commercial models for these cutting edge flagship high speed trains?

Can you actually make up a full train? Is the model accurate - if not what are the flaws?

TGV Sud Est:
Anyone do one???

TGV Reseau
Mehano - HO. 4 car pack (first 2 vehicles each end) Looks ok visually but need to confirm if scale length (Is the nose a touch compressed?). Are intermediate vehicles available at all to make up a credible TGV? Mechanism ?? Detailed accuracy?

TGV Lyra :
HO - Hornby/Jouef(new tooling??). Completely unknown quantity. Will enough vehicles be available to make a full train or is this going to be just a head + tail stub. What will be the drive mechanism. Will they get it absolutely spot on or will there be detailed errors?

Thalys
Mehano - HO. 4 car pack (first 2 vehicles each end) Need to confirm if scale length. Are intermediate vehicles available at all to make up a credible TGV? Mechanism ?? Detailed accuracy?

Eurostar
HO - Hornby , ex Lima ,ex Jouef. Anyone know? Is it back in production? What drives it? Are sufficient vehicles made to give some kind of full train? How accurate is it?

OO - Hornby. Previous generation tooling. First 2/last 2 vehicles currently available but not intermediate trailers. 2nd class intermediate trailers previously available. Bar trailer and first class trailers (2 types) not available - conversion etched sides for these available from Hurst Models for conversion of 2nd trailers, if you can get them. Scale length but indicated to have significant detail "issues" (unidentified) by pedromorgan

N - Kato. Seems to be highly regarded and full formations possible

Pendolino (UK)-
OO. Hornby New tooling. Some concerns just voiced elsewhere about the cab window area from early + prototype photos , though this may be a preproduction model . Seemingly not to be fitted with centre motor mechanism , just a motor bogie. DCC Fitted, presumably with Hornby decoder. Sufficient vehicles to be produced for full 9 coach formation. Originally announced as for trainset market
(And vastly better than Dapols effort though that's not saying much. Probably significantly inferior to Bachmann's Voyager)

ICE

ICE3 and the AVE - HO Trix and Maerklin. Sighted at a distance of 2m across the Hamburg Model Wunterwelt looked relatively undetailed but I don't know the prototypes and it was at speed (3-rail ac , so must have been one of these. A reasonable length of train seems to be possible . I doubt scale length is an issue here - the sections are short. Mechanism? Detailed comments?

ICE1, ICE2 and ICE T - HO Fleischmann . ?? All the usual questions . (Can Neil confirm which ICE is featured in his photo?)

ICE diesel unit - HO? Roco. All the usual questions

HST:
Hornby , OO. Both original Hornby tooling (1979) and Lima tooling (c1990) with Hornby. Hornby power cars depict pre 1980 state, being replaced by Lima power cars correct for last 25 years. Mk3s - Hornby late 90s , scale length accurate but not to latest standards of detail. ex Lima TGS now available so accurate fromations finally possible. Used to be pancake motor bogies - will they fit the new little 5pole "Lima replacement" motor bogie used under the 121 , 156, 73 ? No lights . DCC Ready?

Italian high speed trains?

Any other high speed trains?

I suppose if we are being truly international bullet trains come into the frame - Kato in N ??????

Please fill in the gaps.......
 

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QUOTE (Ravenser @ 30 Jan 2007, 13:37) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>HST:
Hornby , OO. Both original Hornby tooling (1979) and Lima tooling (c1990) with Hornby. Hornby power cars depict pre 1980 state, being replaced by Lima power cars correct for last 25 years. Mk3s - Hornby late 90s , scale length accurate but not to latest standards of detail. ex Lima TGS now available so accurate fromations finally possible. Any other high speed trains?

I suppose if we are being truly international bullet trains come into the frame - Kato in N ??????

Please fill in the gaps.......

Don't forget (one here for our antipodean mates) the hornby version of the Australian XPT, which I bekieve was based on the UK ones. I wouldn't like to comment on the coaches though.

The ICE units from Roco, Fleischmann Trix etc are, from what I have seen of both the models and the real thing pretty accurate, and as far as I am aware all vehicles required to make up a prototypical train are available.

Regards

John
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Think the XPT would not really feature here.

For one thing Hornby reused the 4mm HST body shells. Not only did the Aussie trains have heavy longditudinal ribbing along the sides (it seemed to be in fashion at the time over there) , the Aussies model in HO....

I'm pretty sure the XPT coaches differ from Mk3s as well. Certainly they've since been rebuilt and include sleeper coaches

And from what I recall the XPTs were subject to a 100mph speed limit
 

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QUOTE ICE

ICE3 and the AVE - HO Trix and Maerklin. Sighted at a distance of 2m across the Hamburg Model Wunterwelt looked relatively undetailed but I don't know the prototypes and it was at speed (3-rail ac , so must have been one of these. A reasonable length of train seems to be possible . I doubt scale length is an issue here - the sections are short. Mechanism? Detailed comments?

ICE1, ICE2 and ICE T - HO Fleischmann . ?? All the usual questions . (Can Neil confirm which ICE is featured in his photo?)



It's the ICE3 the review is here. Sorry I didn't comment on whether it was scale length but as you can see from the other reviews by Doug and Gary, nobody else does either. Bear in mind this came out in late 2004 if you do read the review.

In my opinion it is the most technologically advanced High speed unit model currently available. It has directional lighting , digital sound and all the coaches have installed lighting. It is an awesome model. There are three extra coaches available to take the length to eight coaches and it has a hell of a powerful motor so if you have the space it can really belt along.
It is also available in a Spanish variant AVE. These are available in two rail DCC or three rail AC and I believe there is also a Dutch variant too. It does look similar to the DB one though. My biggest annoyance with Hornby as you will read in the review is that they don't make a GNER 225 with all these features and detail. It would be the top of my railway wish list.

I'm kind of pleased you started this thread as, other than steam streamliners, my favourite trains are the high speed expresses.

Unfortunately I have no experience of the Fleischmann ICE's but their reputation would lead me to believe that they would be very good. Brian (DBClass 50 ) I think would know more as he has a lot of experience with Fleischmann. Ones he back from Egypt we can run this by him.

It does surprise me that the major model makers haven't made more models of say the TGV and so on. I guess it comes down to who has the rights to make one and if they reckon it's economically viable. I'm kind of hoping that Maerklin /Trix might do a Thalys or Duplex at some point. They tend to their models with sound and lights which I like. The Fleischmann ones tend not to have sound. There is a Brawa model of the OBB Talent coming out this year which although it looks like a High speed train probably is more of a local one. It is intended to have many features and will have imacculate detail and be spot on scale wise.

QUOTE And from what I recall the XPTs were subject to a 100mph speed limit The tracks here aren't very good. There are loads of crashes and trains are speed limited on many lines.
 

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Tren Ave 102 Talgo 350 de RENFE is available from Electrotren. Wikipedia says this about it

"Although until 2005 both Siemens and Talgo/Bombardier train sets consistently failed to meet scheduled speed targets, in a test run during the homologation tests of the new S102 trains of Renfe, a train-set Talgo 350 (AVE S-102) reached a speed of 365 km/h on the night of the 25th to the 26th of June, and on August 2006 a train-set Siemens (AVE S-103) reached the highest top speed ever in Spain: 403.7 km/h. On 19th May 2006 AVE trains on the Madrid-Lleida line began operating at 250 km/h. On the 16th October the trains on this line increased their operating speed to 280 km/h after the replacement of the Spanish ASFA signalling system with level 1 of the new European ETCS/ERTMS system. RENFE claim that the train will begin operating at 300 km/h in early 2007. To achieve the long term goal of increasing operating speed to 350 km/h level 2 of the ETCS/ERTMS system is required, which, in theory, will be installed in 2008".



It's fast but it ain't pretty.
 

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yes seval of the Shinkansens use the duck bill front. including the max doudle decker.

on the subject of the spanish talgo i have a picture somewhere of one of the powercars after a rather unfortunate test run involving flames!

I still havent seen the electrotren model.

"TGV Sud Est:
Yes lima as well as all the coaches. and its pretty accurate.

TGV Reseau
I dont know about the mehano but the newer lima model is accurate. but it aint worth 180 nicker! (more like £100).

lima also did the postal sets and the duplex. the later models were pretty good but the earlier ones had poor mechanisms and were a bit plasticky.

The mehano Thalys is pretty accurate and looks great!

Peter
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Interesting. So is the promised TGV Lyra new tooling or warmed over Lima?

There are R-numbers available for 4 types Pendolino intermediate coach so this one is looking promising. Some suggestion Hornby have have shaved some of the fairings below the nose to get it round a 2nd radius curve , but better that than shortening of the vehicle (anyone who's bothered can fix it with plasticard)

Presumably Hornby/Jouef will rerelease the TGV reseau and other ex Lima TGVs at some point - a comparitive review against the Mehano competition might be very interesting

If TGV Lyra is the one without a competitor , easy to see why it's the first one to be announced

Commercial support for modelling the high speed lines may be much better than it first seemed...
 

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ravenser,

The paint work on the mehano units is not quite as crisp as it was on the lima's.

i understand the power cars are actually slightly different moudlings. mehano do the 3 voltage duplex power car and lima did the 4 voltage version (or something like that)
the coaches are pretty much the same.
lima made the duplex coaches straight away whereas mehano had been promissing them for ages.

The mechs in both are very good.

Peter
 

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I've been wondering about the technical side of Mehano trains ever since I first came aware of the existence of the brand (and wrote a Wikipedia article about them). I mean, model trains from Slovenia sounds like a joke, but I've heard that some of them aren't half bad. A lot of them occasionally pop up on ebay, going for what appears to be the german equivalent of a nickel.
 

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QUOTE The mehano Thalys is pretty accurate and looks great! How close up have you seen these Peter? Have you seen them running? Are they any good?

QUOTE Presumably Hornby/Jouef will rerelease the TGV reseau and other ex Lima TGVs at some point - a comparitive review against the Mehano competition might be very interesting Looking forward to it.

QUOTE A lot of them occasionally pop up on ebay, going for what appears to be the german equivalent of a nickel. I hope thats not because they're rubbish?


Just found this info on a European site. Thought it might be of interest.

Models of the ICE 3

H0 (1:87)

Märklin has announced a model of the ICE 3 (international version, class 406) for the märklin AC system in Delta and Digital version, to be delivered end of 1999. Length scale is 1:89 (ie. almost perfect H0 scale). This means that the middle cars are 279 mm long, which should not be a problem in 360 mm curves. All cars have interior lights. The basic set consists of the BordRestaurant car 406.3 (motorized) and both end cars 406.0 and 406.5. Transformer cars of 1st class 406.1 and 2nd class 406.6 will be available to extend the train.
Trix will sell a DC version of the märklin H0 ICE 3, which will look exactly the same as the märklin train, and also come in the same sets.

Roco had announced an "exclusive" model of the ICE 3, exactly to 1:87 scale, in both DC and AC systems. They gave up those plans however, and are now offering the ICE-VT instead.

N (1:160)
Arnold released a model of the ICE 3 in N scale in 1999 (after their initial ICT project was cancelled). The basic set consists of end cars 1st and 2nd class and transformer cars 1st and 2nd class. The middle cars 1st and 2nd class (powered in the prototype) are available too.
Z (1:220)
Märklin has announced a model of the ICE 3 (international version, class 406), to be delivered end of 1999. The train has interior lighting with LEDs. The basic set consists of the BordRestaurant car 406.3 (motorized), both end cars 406.0 and 406.5 and a 2nd class transformer car 406.6. For extending the train, a 2nd class car 406.7 will be offered. Here too, three types are missing so you can't form a prototypical consist yet.

ICE info

AVE info

TGV info

TGV models
 

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yes i have seen the mehano. they often have it at modelzone in camden. they dont have one at the momment but they do have the coach packs.

It looks great

"How close up have you seen these Peter?"
about 4 inches with my nose pressed up against the glass!! i have also seen one running around my old club layout. its just fine. (the newer ones anyway. they are on their second tooling. the mech in the old units is not good.)

Peter
 

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Very interesting.

It looks like you can build up one of the Regional Eurostar sets from Kato in N, but only TGV Sud Est is confirmed available in N - these don't run on LGV Nord

By implication the original Jouef Eurostar was weak but has been upgraded. However you are stuck with a 4 car set - no intermediate trailers . Assembling something like a full set is bad enough in OO and means a lot of work - but without any intermediate trailers in HO (they're shorter than the other vehicles and articulated) you'er stuck. Action Hornby/Jouef !

I'm pretty unclear whether the Lima and Jouef TGV Sud Est in HO are the same model under different owners or rival tooling. In any case they are now with Hornby International . Which is the better (if they are seperate) is unclear

The score for LGV Nord in HO seems to be:

TGV Reseau : Mehano - intermediate vehicles?? , Lima full length ? not yet re-issued
Thalys : Yes , Mehano , scale length
Eurostar : ? ex Joeuf , but no intermediate vehicles

in OO:

Eurostar : Yes but intermediate vehicles difficult to source (2nd hand) and a lot of conversion work required
Slam door EMUs : Extensive conversion work to build from Mk1s
Cl 377 Electrostars : No support in any form - not even kits or etched sides
Cl 92 : Out of the catalogue but readily available 2nd hand

LGV Sud Est in HO:

TGV Lyra Forthcoming from Hornby/Joeuf. Is this the Lima tooling rereleased?
TGV Reseau :Mehano -intermediate vehicles?? , Lima full length ? not yet re-issued
TGV Sud Est: Lima full length ? not yet re-issued

TGV Postal, Euromed ; May be available on 2nd hand market

There seem to be key gaps all round , but at this stage LGV Sud Est looks the most promising option
 

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QUOTE (pedromorgan @ 3 Feb 2007, 16:42) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>yes i have seen the mehano. they often have it at modelzone in camden. they dont have one at the momment but they do have the coach packs.

It looks great

"How close up have you seen these Peter?"
about 4 inches with my nose pressed up against the glass!! i have also seen one running around my old club layout. its just fine. (the newer ones anyway. they are on their second tooling. the mech in the old units is not good.)

Peter
Thanks Peter, the Thalys just made it's way onto my shopping list. I think it's a fantastic looking train.
 

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QUOTE they often have it at modelzone in camden Peter, where about is the ModelZone in Camden? When I lived in London I used to be in Camden at least once a week and don't remember seeing it. Having said that I've been here for six or seven years. Is it fairly new?
 

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Hello neil. it went from being "Beatties" to "Modelzone" in the space of about 6 hours!
I walk past it on my way home.

I took some measurements of a TGV last night and compared it with the prototype and i have left the bloddy piece of paper at home!

aah well.
it will be monday now. sorry

Peter
 
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