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763 Posts
I think we've now reached the point where this should be turned into a thread, to avoid discussion disrupting other threads:

What is actually available in terms of commercial models for these cutting edge flagship high speed trains?

Can you actually make up a full train? Is the model accurate - if not what are the flaws?

TGV Sud Est:
Anyone do one???

TGV Reseau
Mehano - HO. 4 car pack (first 2 vehicles each end) Looks ok visually but need to confirm if scale length (Is the nose a touch compressed?). Are intermediate vehicles available at all to make up a credible TGV? Mechanism ?? Detailed accuracy?

TGV Lyra :
HO - Hornby/Jouef(new tooling??). Completely unknown quantity. Will enough vehicles be available to make a full train or is this going to be just a head + tail stub. What will be the drive mechanism. Will they get it absolutely spot on or will there be detailed errors?

Mehano - HO. 4 car pack (first 2 vehicles each end) Need to confirm if scale length. Are intermediate vehicles available at all to make up a credible TGV? Mechanism ?? Detailed accuracy?

HO - Hornby , ex Lima ,ex Jouef. Anyone know? Is it back in production? What drives it? Are sufficient vehicles made to give some kind of full train? How accurate is it?

OO - Hornby. Previous generation tooling. First 2/last 2 vehicles currently available but not intermediate trailers. 2nd class intermediate trailers previously available. Bar trailer and first class trailers (2 types) not available - conversion etched sides for these available from Hurst Models for conversion of 2nd trailers, if you can get them. Scale length but indicated to have significant detail "issues" (unidentified) by pedromorgan

N - Kato. Seems to be highly regarded and full formations possible

Pendolino (UK)-
OO. Hornby New tooling. Some concerns just voiced elsewhere about the cab window area from early + prototype photos , though this may be a preproduction model . Seemingly not to be fitted with centre motor mechanism , just a motor bogie. DCC Fitted, presumably with Hornby decoder. Sufficient vehicles to be produced for full 9 coach formation. Originally announced as for trainset market
(And vastly better than Dapols effort though that's not saying much. Probably significantly inferior to Bachmann's Voyager)


ICE3 and the AVE - HO Trix and Maerklin. Sighted at a distance of 2m across the Hamburg Model Wunterwelt looked relatively undetailed but I don't know the prototypes and it was at speed (3-rail ac , so must have been one of these. A reasonable length of train seems to be possible . I doubt scale length is an issue here - the sections are short. Mechanism? Detailed comments?

ICE1, ICE2 and ICE T - HO Fleischmann . ?? All the usual questions . (Can Neil confirm which ICE is featured in his photo?)

ICE diesel unit - HO? Roco. All the usual questions

Hornby , OO. Both original Hornby tooling (1979) and Lima tooling (c1990) with Hornby. Hornby power cars depict pre 1980 state, being replaced by Lima power cars correct for last 25 years. Mk3s - Hornby late 90s , scale length accurate but not to latest standards of detail. ex Lima TGS now available so accurate fromations finally possible. Used to be pancake motor bogies - will they fit the new little 5pole "Lima replacement" motor bogie used under the 121 , 156, 73 ? No lights . DCC Ready?

Italian high speed trains?

Any other high speed trains?

I suppose if we are being truly international bullet trains come into the frame - Kato in N ??????

Please fill in the gaps.......

763 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Think the XPT would not really feature here.

For one thing Hornby reused the 4mm HST body shells. Not only did the Aussie trains have heavy longditudinal ribbing along the sides (it seemed to be in fashion at the time over there) , the Aussies model in HO....

I'm pretty sure the XPT coaches differ from Mk3s as well. Certainly they've since been rebuilt and include sleeper coaches

And from what I recall the XPTs were subject to a 100mph speed limit

763 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Interesting. So is the promised TGV Lyra new tooling or warmed over Lima?

There are R-numbers available for 4 types Pendolino intermediate coach so this one is looking promising. Some suggestion Hornby have have shaved some of the fairings below the nose to get it round a 2nd radius curve , but better that than shortening of the vehicle (anyone who's bothered can fix it with plasticard)

Presumably Hornby/Jouef will rerelease the TGV reseau and other ex Lima TGVs at some point - a comparitive review against the Mehano competition might be very interesting

If TGV Lyra is the one without a competitor , easy to see why it's the first one to be announced

Commercial support for modelling the high speed lines may be much better than it first seemed...

763 Posts
Very interesting.

It looks like you can build up one of the Regional Eurostar sets from Kato in N, but only TGV Sud Est is confirmed available in N - these don't run on LGV Nord

By implication the original Jouef Eurostar was weak but has been upgraded. However you are stuck with a 4 car set - no intermediate trailers . Assembling something like a full set is bad enough in OO and means a lot of work - but without any intermediate trailers in HO (they're shorter than the other vehicles and articulated) you'er stuck. Action Hornby/Jouef !

I'm pretty unclear whether the Lima and Jouef TGV Sud Est in HO are the same model under different owners or rival tooling. In any case they are now with Hornby International . Which is the better (if they are seperate) is unclear

The score for LGV Nord in HO seems to be:

TGV Reseau : Mehano - intermediate vehicles?? , Lima full length ? not yet re-issued
Thalys : Yes , Mehano , scale length
Eurostar : ? ex Joeuf , but no intermediate vehicles

in OO:

Eurostar : Yes but intermediate vehicles difficult to source (2nd hand) and a lot of conversion work required
Slam door EMUs : Extensive conversion work to build from Mk1s
Cl 377 Electrostars : No support in any form - not even kits or etched sides
Cl 92 : Out of the catalogue but readily available 2nd hand

LGV Sud Est in HO:

TGV Lyra Forthcoming from Hornby/Joeuf. Is this the Lima tooling rereleased?
TGV Reseau :Mehano -intermediate vehicles?? , Lima full length ? not yet re-issued
TGV Sud Est: Lima full length ? not yet re-issued

TGV Postal, Euromed ; May be available on 2nd hand market

There seem to be key gaps all round , but at this stage LGV Sud Est looks the most promising option

763 Posts
Discussion Starter · #28 ·

Looking at the TGV Sud Est measurements, one leaps out and hits me:

Height 4.090m 1:87=47mm Model=32.5mm

Is this a typo?

The bogies are a bit short in the wheelbase (2mm too short) but this is not a killer

If the finish is poor , then at least the livery is not too complex - much easier than many current UK liveries - and might well be within the capability of someone with an airbrush to redo

The retooled version should , obviously, be better still

763 Posts
I've just come across the following , which shows that the Lima version of the Thalys is available, at least in a 4 car pack, ref HL2001:

quai59 - French retailer

There is a decent blown up view of the front end. I have no idea what the "nouvelle moterisation" is - but lets hope it has more grunt than the ex Lima 73....

All I can make out about the retailer in question is that they seem to be from Douai and trade over the internet and at swapmeets in the region. Doug may know more about him as he seems to be in the same region.

The catalogue may be a resource for what is currently available for French outline HO , at least from one "detaillant"

And the Roco Corails are available too
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