Model Railway Forum banner
1 - 20 of 46 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
352 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Velux & Smoke, let me explain the connection, for years i wanted some natural light in the loft, one reason was to let natural light in, the other reason was to let the smoke out !!! well theres no smoke yet, but im hoping there will be soon, as i have now fitted a velux window, so i now have ventilation, so now i would like to fit smoke generators to the locos that have room in the boilers for them, i have had smoke generators on past locos that have run on DC, but have not tried it with DCC, i would want to run the power to the units via the decoder, is this posibble? will a decoder handle the current required to operate the smoke unit? how do i connect it to the decoder? any help / advice will be appreciated.
PS if i do get the smoke units operating, i hope the neighbours wont think this roof is alight when they see smoke coming out the window
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
193 Posts
Dear Thunder,

The short answer is "Yes", you can have Smoke and control it from the decoder. It does require a decoder with the right output to match the input required by the smoke unit. Without some information about the scale you are considering and type of loco (steam or diesel), I can't advise you further. The most popular smoke units are from Seuthe and you can do a quick Google on "smoke suethe dcc" to get quite a number of relevant articles.
 

·
Paul Hamilton aka "Lancashire Fusilier"
Joined
·
844 Posts
I have fitted successfully a Seuthe #22 for plastic bodied locos to a Hornby Fowler 2-6-4T loco using a TCS MC2 2 function decoder. I connected both funtion wires (white and yellow) to one wire of the Seuthe and the common wire (blue) to the other wire. I adjusted the CV to make the front and rear lights on all times in all directions thus basically giving me full 2 function output current to the Seuthe (200mA or so).

I assigned mine Function 0 so now when I want to start a loco I press F0 first and it heats up and smoke then comes out before I drive it away!

By the way the loco I am talking about is for sale on eBay (shameless plug I know!) but I am building a loco out of metal on a workbench thread that also is having a unit fitted in the same manner and will be run off a 4 function TCS decoder.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
774 Posts
Hi

Smoke and DCC no problem at all. I have maybe 10-12 fitted no 22's and the metal ones only. The work fantastic on TCS and Loksound decoders.

Now if you really want to get more from your smoke generator build a tank and pre heater. I cant remember what resistance I have in my pre heater, will test it soon.

A couple of advantages of a tank and preheater. I have found it greatly extends running time but another benefit I have found with the pre heater helps with a better and constant discharge. It also seems to stop all the small splattering you get from the unburnt oil. That because the generator is vaporising hot oil.

I installed this last week. See video and tell me what you think?



martin
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,611 Posts
Now that does look cool.

How and wat are you building the tank and pre-heater out of?

How does the warmed smoke fluid get to the smoke unit?

Cheers

John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,342 Posts
Hi LF
I found your loco
Looks good
Hornby R2397A LMS Fowler 2-6-4T 4P No 2321 00 Gauge

I'll give you a shameless plug advert
Regards Zmil

By the way the loco I am talking about is for sale on eBay (shameless plug I know!) but I am building a loco out of metal on a workbench thread that also is having a unit fitted in the same manner and will be run off a 4 function TCS decoder.
[/quote]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,342 Posts
QUOTE (Thunder @ 30 Jul 2008, 03:26) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>PS if i do get the smoke units operating, i hope the neighbours wont think this roof is alight when they see smoke coming out the window


I had an experience, quite a few years ago.
Working in stage lighting we had smoke machines for nightclubs and bands so we used a number of smoke machines, some installed permanently some transportable.
One night while trying to repair the flow of an older machine I managed to fill my workshop and most of my house with smoke. This I expected
-but what I did not expect was the huge column of smoke rising up from my house

And a knock on the door from a couple of concerned Police officers!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,592 Posts




Here's some examples of smoke units running with DCC. They really smoke well, and despite the heat generated there's zero threat to the body because of heat generation. I produce a machined bush that fits between the body and the smoke unit.The trick really is to be able to fit the smoke units in these bodies. The West country is of course easy, but requires some clearance to be made on the weight to clear the wires and then adding compensating weight. The Merchant Navy needs the weight removing and the body slitting, once this is done again compensating weight is added. Finally the rebuilt West Country requires serious work. Removal of the front weight requires skill, and some good fortune as it's held in place by black silicon within the body. Once done it's almost identical to the Merchant Navy, time consuming !
There are alternatives, position stationary smoke units around the layout, MicroMart in the states produce some large capacity smoke units with fans for only a few dollars, and these could be fitted under the layout to provide smoke in Engine sheds, tunnel mouths and stations, they are large capacity and take 10 times more smoke oil than the Seuthe 100. Steam engines didn't always produce smoke, so smoke oil, will last much longer with DCC control and careful control by the operator !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
352 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Many thanks for the replys so far, now i know its a viable option, im going to push my luck a little further and list the locos i want to convert, im also looking to change the current decoders fitted, as only one has back emf, i need to consider the type of smoke unit required and the decoder to handle its load, please keep watching this space, as more help is needed, to achive the results you guys have.
Regards John (Thunder)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
352 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The Locomotives I would like to convert are listed below, all are fitted with the Lenz LE1000A decoders, except for the A3 that has a NCE D13SRP decoder, im looking to change the lenz decoders with ones supporting back emf, along with smoke generators, all are 00 gauge.

Bachman Jinty Run # 47279 at moment this has decoder in the smoke box

A3 Winsor Lad 60035, Hornby

A4 Silver Fox 2512, Bachman

N7 tank 9522, Airfix

Q1 33017, Hornby

Princes Elizabeth 6201 tender drive, Hornby

Crab 13098, Bachman

ivat tank (i think) 2-6-2 41281, bachman.

I did e-mail dcc concepts with a view to purchasing the required items needed, as they appear to do a wide range of smoke generators and decoders, and maybe fit them as well, but have not had a reply, so any help from here would be very welcome

Many thanks John (Thunder)
 

·
Just another modeller
Joined
·
9,983 Posts
QUOTE (Thunder @ 1 Aug 2008, 18:48) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The Locomotives I would like to convert are listed below, all are fitted with the Lenz LE1000A decoders, except for the A3 that has a NCE D13SRP decoder, im looking to change the lenz decoders with ones supporting back emf, along with smoke generators, all are 00 gauge.

Bachman Jinty Run # 47279 at moment this has decoder in the smoke box

A3 Winsor Lad 60035, Hornby

A4 Silver Fox 2512, Bachman

N7 tank 9522, Airfix

Q1 33017, Hornby

Princes Elizabeth 6201 tender drive, Hornby

Crab 13098, Bachman

ivat tank (i think) 2-6-2 41281, bachman.

I did e-mail dcc concepts with a view to purchasing the required items needed, as they appear to do a wide range of smoke generators and decoders, and maybe fit them as well, but have not had a reply, so any help from here would be very welcome

Many thanks John (Thunder)

***Hello John

I definately haven't recieved your email - are you sure you sent it to me in Australia or was it perhaps to Bromsgrove models or dccsupplies?

If it was to me please resend it to [email protected] and I will be happy to respond ASAP.

As to advice - TCS make a really nice yet economical Back EMF decoder, and their functions are tough enough to drive the smoke unit.

Use the TCS MC2 (or MC-2 UK if they have 8 pin sockets) for all of them along with the #22 Seuthe smoke units. Some will require you to do some metalwork on the chassis to fit the smoke unit, and a couple will also require some work to make the chimney of the smoke unit fit. (example = the Jinty).

Richard
DCCconcepts
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
352 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Whoops sorry richard, i meant "DCC Supplies" of Worcestershire WR6 6BE UK, i e-mailed them through their website, but have yet to receive a reply, accept my appolagise for the confusion, and thanks for the information.

Kind regards

John (thunder)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
352 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hello Richard, I have taken you advice and ordered 2 MC2 decoders and 2 No22 smoke units, i will have a go at fitting these before starting on all the other locos i have, if im succesful, i will post a photo along with the other steamers on this thread, thanks again to every one for your help.

regards John (Thunder)
 

·
Paul Hamilton aka &quot;Lancashire Fusilier&quot;
Joined
·
844 Posts
As we are on the topic of smoke units and specifically DCC Control, I have found that I always looked to have the smoke unit totally vertical and of course in the chimney! However I wondered if it could be angled slightly lets say 15 - 30 degrees offset to allow it to fit in tighter places and whether or not a brass tube extension could be used too. For jinties and the like where the unit simply wont fit inside the existing chimney stack an apprpriate brass tube could be used instead erhaps. Anyone have thoughts on this?

3
 

·
Just another modeller
Joined
·
9,983 Posts
QUOTE (Lancashire Fusilier @ 3 Aug 2008, 07:40) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>As we are on the topic of smoke units and specifically DCC Control, I have found that I always looked to have the smoke unit totally vertical and of course in the chimney! However I wondered if it could be angled slightly lets say 15 - 30 degrees offset to allow it to fit in tighter places and whether or not a brass tube extension could be used too. For jinties and the like where the unit simply wont fit inside the existing chimney stack an apprpriate brass tube could be used instead perhaps. Anyone have thoughts on this?

3

***Tilting it - No reason why not within reason, other than the fact that the end of the tiny capilliary tube in the smoke generator shouldn't be covered in oil and so you should fill it a little less than the recommended amount if tilted a lot. (the oil vapourises inside the capilliary tube).

As to extensions no problem at all - just do it.

Richard
DCCconcepts
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
352 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Oh dear what have i done?, i got my grubby mitts on 2 x MC2 decoders, & 2 X smoke generators, and fitted one of the smoke and decoder units to one loco, it ran well for five mins, then stopped dead, on investigation, it seems like the decoder has burnt out? theres a scortch mark on its covering.

The loco i used is an old Airfix N& tank loco, it was fitted with an older lenz decoder, but no smoke generator, and ran well enough, i fitted the new smoke unit and decoder, checking it as i went along, done a short bench test, which gave plenty of smoke and good loco contol, put the loco body back on, and set it off for a test run pulling 12 wagons, it was running for about 5/7 mins, then stopped dead, investigation shows a burn/scortch mark on decioder covering.
so what has caused it? faulty decoder? motor in loco drawing to much current? loco motor not suitable for this decoder (to old)? HELP !!!

I still have the other decoder i purchased, but im reluctant to swop them with out knowing the cause, they both have the goof proof warranty, but i would like to know whats happened, any ideas?

Regards John (Thunder)
 

·
Just another modeller
Joined
·
9,983 Posts
QUOTE (Thunder @ 3 Aug 2008, 19:25) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Oh dear what have i done?, i got my grubby mitts on 2 x MC2 decoders, & 2 X smoke generators, and fitted one of the smoke and decoder units to one loco, it ran well for five mins, then stopped dead, on investigation, it seems like the decoder has burnt out? theres a scortch mark on its covering.

The loco i used is an old Airfix N& tank loco, it was fitted with an older lenz decoder, but no smoke generator, and ran well enough, i fitted the new smoke unit and decoder, checking it as i went along, done a short bench test, which gave plenty of smoke and good loco contol, put the loco body back on, and set it off for a test run pulling 12 wagons, it was running for about 5/7 mins, then stopped dead, investigation shows a burn/scortch mark on decioder covering.
so what has caused it? faulty decoder? motor in loco drawing to much current? loco motor not suitable for this decoder (to old)? HELP !!!

I still have the other decoder i purchased, but im reluctant to swop them with out knowing the cause, they both have the goof proof warranty, but i would like to know whats happened, any ideas?

Regards John (Thunder)

***John, its impossible to know what caused it without seeing the install and decoder, but it won't be a faulty decoder - burns only happen from shorts or overload. If it ran for that long I think it may simply be that the load from that particular smoke unit was too high.

check your motor current draw - remembering that decoder ratings are always for motor + functions as a total, not just motor.

it MAY need the larger TCS T-1 for the N2 as it has a higher power rating.

Check really thoroughly for insulation of all relevant points and make sure all solder joints are insulated. Install the second one but connect both the white and yellow to one lead, blue to the other. remap the functions so one button turns both functions on.

As to goof proof warranty, use it - that is what it is there for and you did the basic install right after all....

regards

Richard
DCCconcepts
 
1 - 20 of 46 Posts
Top