Victorian Locomotives

Hello Swik1

I love victorian loco's too. but for ready to run you are going to find life very difficult. beside the ones you mentioned there is also the LBSCR terrier. its small but delightfuly pretty. but they also lasted a very long time so make sure you get one in the correct stroudly improved engine green.

Apart from thise and the hornby reissued singles you are basically stuffed.

Unless you go for kits. For that typical early victorian theme with the massive hats and the even bigger skirts, i would thoroughly recommend the liverpool and manchester lion. the kit was origionally made buy K's but it has been retooled and reissued buy IKB models. i have made a K's version and it was a challange to build and if i am honest i have never actually finished it because i am rubbish at making chassis work and this was no exception. but i have seen the retooled version and its very good and it has the compensated chassis that IKB do so well. i have never built one but i have seen the kit and the result and both really are very good.

There are some others to look out for. the other kits in the K's milestones range and also take a look at london road models.

"victorian" is actually a pretty general term. the world was moveing soo fast back then that fasions and rolling stock design changed almost by the week. for example the liverpool and manchester lion is a very different beast from sitrling single or an ivatt atlantic.

It's really up to you. if you want ready to run then you are going to be pretty limited but if you dont mind building kits then the worlds your oyster.

Peter

In addition to those already mentioned, the list in OO RTR is pretty short. Most of the models typically represent the class concerned in the grouping or BR era; and some barely squeak into the 'Victorian' category, with just a few constructed in the last year or two of the 19th Century.
Hornby
GWR Dean Goods (and the 14XX is very similar to the 517 design and could be backdated?)
Old Smokey 0-4-0T was a Neilson design used on both the Caledonian and North British Railways
J52 Great Northern Railway
M7 London and South Western Railway

Bachmann
J72 North Eastern Railway
(3FT could be backdated to original Midland condition?)
(The promised Super D 0-8-0 could be backdated to a London and North Western Railway original condition?)

Shouldn't think there is an authentic coach to be had, maybe one or two wagons.

And the GWR Broad gauge is very much 'Victorian' finally failing in 1892.

QUOTE (neil_s_wood @ 17 Dec 2007, 22:46) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>There is also "The Adler" or the Eagle. While this is only available in German HO it is one of the few very early British locomotives. It was made in Newcastle or somewhere around there, by George Stephenson and exported to Germany. It is renowned in Germany as their first steam locomotive.

Der Adler by Trix isn´t so far fetched, as I read someplace that its scale is 1:80, rather than 1:87, for some reason.

thanks for the replies - its good to know that im not the only one interested in these early locos.

i will check out the terrier model. in fact there is an opportunity to see the real thing when it visits the west somerset railway on the 29th of this month! should be good. i like little locos.

as you say, pedromorgan, kits are another option. is it possible to get kits which have plastic body shells? the metal ones are too expensive for me.

i think that you are right, looking on the internet there aren't many victorian locos to be found in rtr format.

how expensive are broad gauge locos? i would like to have something like an iron duke. again, are plastic models available? sorry so many questions. i think that it would fun to have a broad gauge setup, like madkitten says, because its different. i live in the west country and as you probably all know the railways around here used to be broad gauge (brunel's gwr). i think that broad gauge locos look really good.

why do you think that pre-1900 and early 1900 locos are hard to get in rtr format?
i think it might be because they are not as 'iconic', classic and famous as the 20s and 30s locomotives. they are simply not as well known as something like an A3.

the same scenario exists in the r/c model aircraft world. its easy to get a model of a cessna, spitfire or piper cub in artf (almost ready to fly format). but the less well known planes like a percival prentice are impossible to get in artf format. often the rare planes are more interesting. sometimes the only option for the r/c aeromodeller is to build from plans. but this gives you a more original aircraft.

again thank you for the suggestions of models to get. what does lbscr stand for?

QUOTE (ME 26-06 @ 18 Dec 2007, 09:19) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Der Adler by Trix isn´t so far fetched, as I read someplace that its scale is 1:80, rather than 1:87, for some reason.
I wonder if it's because it's comparatively small?

QUOTE (swik1 @ 17 Dec 2007, 22:39) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>why do you think that pre-1900 and early 1900 locos are hard to get in rtr format?
There are several contributing reasons, but I suspect that three dominate.

Until relatively recently it was difficult to fit a decent mechanism into many of the physically small locomotives of that time. In the UK ''the big engine era' began circa 1900. Prior to that, with only a few exceptions locomotives had small boilers, positioned with low centrelines, and very 'skinny' tenders. If you look at Hornby's Dean Goods model, and compare it to the real thing, the tender has had to be compromised to accomodate the available style of drive. (This can now be done significantly better at an acceptable price.)

There were many 'iconic' classes in the Victorian era. The GNR Stirling singles, LNWR 'Bloomers' and 'Jumbos', NER 'Tennants' and LBSCR 'Gladstones' perhaps some of the most notable. Their service operation is now practically outwith human memory, and all the reminder the public has is a static exhibit in a museum at best. These were express passenger machines, and of little use on other work once displaced by the bigger engines, so usually quickly scrapped. (Compare to the survivors from that era still in service in living memory, these were secondary classes, retained usually for lightness. Terriers, Radial tanks, Beattie well tanks, Choppers, Buckjumpers, J15's, Dean Goods and various others served out 60 + years to near the end of steam operation on the by-ways of the network; consequently a few of these have been available RTR.)

Finally, lack of knowledge. Proverbially, 'the past is a foreign country' and it requires a lot more research to build a model when so much of the evidence is concealed or erased by later development. Basic stuff like typical train formations, working practises, track layouts, and the general look and feel of the surroundings are far less accessible. (Which hasn't stopped some people making a very interesting job of modelling earlier times.)

Engine choices RTR as above.

Especially the Stroudley Terrier?......[could even try a back-date to the Highland Railway Dornoch tanks, which inspired the Terrier?]

By ''victorian'' does the OP mean, pre-early 1900's?

or, pre-WW1?

Because those extra 10 years or so make a world of difference as to what is available?

Either way, the main issues will centre on liveries? Those liveries from the late 1800's onwards could be really complicated...and ''clean'' was the name of the game. Corporate image was considered vitally important back then.

Either way, to be right some modification is usually neccesary.

For coaching stock, I suggest taking a look at the Ratio plastic kits?

Especially their 4 wheelers?

Another suggestion for a 'generic' coach would be the old Tri-ang clerestory GWR coaches? [re-bogie, re-wheel, etc?]

For goods stock, to be right it's down to kits, and there a loads available out there, in plastic , etched and in whitemetal.

RTR stuff like some of the smaller Hornby wagons really need their underframes sorting to be of any use.

For brake vans.....I feel the choice is limited to the Ratio early brakes.....or was it parkside?...anyway, ceck out the plastic bags and boxes in your local model shop, for the ex-MR brake..I have one in a drawer somewhere.

For kits, try Lochgorm..they do some excellent early Highland railway kits...locos, etc......Dukes, Straths...all those Highland Rly, ''Crewe-type'' locos are ideal as ''Victorian'' designs.

Whils5t on the boil, don't forget, things like signals, etc..vital to a railway, were of significantly different design to those available RTR.......for example, most ''distant' signals were'nt actually yellow in those days......but red!

Also, slotted-post signals were in general use.

In general, up to early 1900's, goods engines were 0-6-0 tender jobs......passengers locos were either 4-4-0, or thereabouts......single-driver' were often converted to 2-4-0's by the latter 1800's...as loadings rapidly increased.

What about ''City of Truro?'

A bit on the cusp, I know, but motorising kits can be had......and someone will paint one up for you if your wallet ask's nicely?

Also.....don't feel tempted to slap down Peco streamline, or set track.....it will look horrendous....for such a time frame.

If you model the american scene, then there's loads of locos and stock just right for the late 1800's/early 1900's.

QUOTE (34C @ 19 Dec 2007, 11:43) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>In terms of exterior appearance, very little. It barely makes it as 'Victorian' as it first emerged in 1898, although very similar in appearance to a slightly larger wheeled class, (LNER classification J71) of circa 1885.

very definately makes it!

the designs were created by a Victorian brain?

I feel the essence of 'victorian' railways were...apart from the smaller stock.....the methods of operation, and the differences in the way things were done..

for example, track ballasting?

Right up the the early 1900's...[a good cut-off point viz victorian to pre-group].....the accepted wisdom re ballasting was, right up over sleeper level, almost to tops of rails.

Bullhead rail and chaired track, was the norm by the late 1800's.........

wagons were just about moving from single brake to pairs of handbrake levers, although not necessarily ''on teh shunter's right''....

Another loco?....try the Hornby ex-L&Y Pug, 0-4-0, for shunting...remove buffers and replace with large wood blocks??