[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (Gary @ 4 Mar 2007, 11:28) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>And if you don't like the light situation there is a simple solution. Turn them off!

Happy modelling
Gary

First of all thanks Gary for the pics. I always think that photos will highlight any "defects" more so than the naked eye. Be nice to see it with the detail fixed & in action on a layout.

Yes, you can of course turn off the lights - or if using a decent decoder for DCC dim them.

Plus points to me are the price (do people really expect £200 quality for £50 ?) & the fact that is made in the EU, but then again what do I know ?

 

[pedromorgan]

"do people really expect £200 quality for £50 ?"
No but we do expect £50 quality for £50. i think for £50 we should be able to expect painted ends.
for £200 i would expect a metal model with on board DCC and good sound with all axle drive and excellent detail and dimensions correct to within 1mm. i would even go so far as to say i would like something along the lines of dynadrive or a centrifugal clutch.

i too like the fact that its made in the EU but i wouldnt regard that as a plus point when it comes to handing over money. I know a few US companies are using "made in the US" as a bit of an excuse for poor products.
the products should be things for which the country can be proud. when china is turning out excellent hornby and bachmann loco's i dont really think the new 37 falls into that catagory.

Peter

 

[Ravenser]

QUOTE Ah well so much for go easy on it.

Welcome to UK 4mm D+E....

 

[pedromorgan]

"Welcome to UK 4mm D+E.... "

yep. i am actually quite supprised that bachmann have retooled the 37 for the third time. i was actually under the impression they were giving up on D+E because it was just too difficult.
I wonder if they now budget for a retool when they produce a model.

Peter

 

[Gary]

QUOTE Ah well so much for go easy on it.

Welcome to UK 4mm D+E....

Is it really like that?

Why?

Old Lima and Hornby stuff seems to have a good shape to me and millions like me. Is it simply a point scoring thing?

I am afraid that forums that are full of that sort of tosh are a total bore. And if D & E chat here takes us down that route then we should ban D & E discussion in my view (and my view alone!)

These are toys to be played with after all and talk about how we enjoy playing with them seems far more fun (for me) than talk about whether a model rivet is in the right place.

The most important thing for me about the ViTrains Class 37 is the way the packaging has damaged the airhorns. As for the rest as a £50 model its seems very reasonable with a lot of nice features. If modellers wish to upgrade things a touch then they have this opportunity and no doubt those same modellers would do similar tweaks to all models including Bachmann's finest. I'm not really in that league and look at things from the point of view of personal satisfaction and I am satisfied (once horns sorted).

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[pedromorgan]

"Old Lima and Hornby stuff seems to have a good shape to me and millions like me."

I dont think it was gary. it was just what they were palming us off with at the time. i think for many years the mags were not nearly harsh enough and so they got away with giving us poor products.

Luclely this is the age of the internet and we are no longer reliant on magazines to influence manufacturers.

It was because of lima and hornby that i went into american modelling and it wasnt untill hornby went super detail that i came back.

"I am afraid that forums that are full of that sort of tosh are a total bore." i dont think its just the forums. i think its more the generation that tend towards D+E modelling. I once went on a Diesel railtour and there was one person that lent out of the wondow so far he broke his arm on a bridge! that was bad enough but then he refused to get of the train and go to hospital. holding up the train for several minutes.
i went on another where fights broke out in the carridge and saw scenes that could only be described as sheer vandalism. i know its just a minority but its scenes like that that are the reason D+E enthusiasts have such a poor reputation.

Peter

 

[Jennings]

I got one of these yesterday but resisted on commenting until i had tried it (Wouldn't be fair to complain about a model until i had tried it myself).

First impressions are very good - The yellow ends are not as bad as first mentioned (Probably matched to the reference material used). General running qualities are good (Up to the standard of most standard Bachmann releases) but the motor is a bit on the loud side. Lights also are good - Nice to see they are not excessivly bright (Compared to those of the Hornby 60)

After fitting a DCC chip to it (A standard 3 Function Bachmann one - Wasn't that easy as its only the second time i have fitted one to a loco). Running qualities have improved a lot with very good slow speed control now. Only problem is the front lights shine through the yellow plastic making it look like most of the front of the model is lit up. Same goes for the tail lights which create a line along part of the nose where the red filter is.

So is it worth £50? Well to be honest i think its a good price for what you get. Compare it to something like the Hornby 67 which has some glaring omissions to it and the lack of decent lights then this is certainly a good price.

 

[Gary]

Is the D & E community really as Peter has indicated?

I'm shocked if it is. They all sound like football hooligans. I've never encountered anything like this (except on the Bachmann stand at the Warley Show) but then I am more a steam man and whenever I travel on the Severn Valley it all seems very polite and cream teas and cakes and scones.

It also has to be said that SK of Hornby does get "shouted at" at the Warley Show. These could well be D & E fanatics. I cannot imagine steam fans making the same noises! Probably more of a whistle than a loud horn!

I wonder if Bachmann staff get the same treatment?

People often say I should get out a bit more however it sounds as if I am better off stopping in!

Happy modelling
Gary

PS it now makes me wonder how orderly that queue was for the Bachmann Scotrail special? I can imagine a few bruises being suffered especially as there would have been a lot of red headed hard folk from Glasgow in the queue!

(no offence to red headed folk from Scotland however you do have to admit that there is a certain reputation for hard drinking and hard living up in those parts....)

 

[alastairq]

well.....maybe I'm a lot more tolerant than today's modellers?

The 'bleed' issue I raised initially, wasn't so much aimed at the light units...many, many models in the past, US and others, have had the same issue regarding shrouding of interior light sources.......but I raised the issue because of the effects of NATURAL sunlight feeding in through areas like cab windows.

The yellow areas need toning down....

whther resprayed, or simply dulled by judicious weathering...I will await the arrival of my version first.

I also raised the point, which seems to have been ignored, that PERHAPS the issue of the tone of the bonnet areas might simply be relevant to THIS particular colour scheme?

I would reserve judgement on the paint quality until after I've had a gander at samples of the other liveries due to become available??

PLUS......the above issues may not be of real concern to any but a few owners, since this colour scheme is to be issued only in limited numbers.

There was a point raised about expectations for the price.....and exactly how far individuals need to go to achieve a more desirable finish or level of detail?
So....does one's weathering consist of a quick flash-over with some underframe dirt aerosol? (as Hornby seem to do?)
Or do some folk actually spend as much time on ageing, or dirtying their models as they would with complete resprays?

I expect I do.

 

[Ravenser]

QUOTE Old Lima and Hornby stuff seems to have a good shape to me and millions like me. Is it simply a point scoring thing?

The bodyshell was generally the strongest part of Lima and older generation Hornby. It was often compromised and inaccurate when you started digging , and Lima's finishing was poor but the real killers were elsewhere.

Quite a lot of work in terms of rewheeling, extra pickups, and ballast had to be done to get decent running out of them.

The new generation of models have vastly better mechanisms , run much much slower, more smoothly and don't stall on pointwork. Haulage power has not been compromised - quite the opposite. Neil Woods wretched 91 is a fair sample of the limitations of the older models : a Bachmann 20 let alone a new 66 or 60 leaves it for dead

It would be cruel to do a running test between a Lima 37 out of the box and a Bachmann 37

The real issue with Vi-Trains 37/4 is that Bachmann will be releasing their own 37/4 in 2-3 months, and the usual discounters are already advertising that for around £50. In that situation, unfortunately every facet of both models will be scrutinised to decide which one to go for.

It isn't about whether this model is good value for £50. Its about whether it beats all the other £50 RTR OO 37/4s out there

 

[rb277170]

I think Jennings has a fair point. Perhaps the true comparison is not against Bachmann models but against the current Hornby offerings (ex Lima)

ViTrains seems to have produced an acceptable model with smooth running ,good haulage capabilities ,DCC Ready with lighting for £50 (its a shame the yellow ends are so plasticy!)

On the other hand Hornby have produced ex Lima models , which while having a 5 pole motor do not have great haulage capabilities, no lighting, inaccurate liveries in some cases for £60-£70. This is where criticism should be directed not ViTrains!

I hope ViTrains go onto produce some multiple units and who knows perhaps even an AC Electric. Lets encourage them. Their first entry into the UK market is certainly not a disaster!

Russell

 

[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (pedromorgan @ 4 Mar 2007, 13:09) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>No but we do expect £50 quality for £50. i think for £50 we should be able to expect painted ends.
for £200 i would expect a metal model with on board DCC and good sound with all axle drive and excellent detail and dimensions correct to within 1mm. i would even go so far as to say i would like something along the lines of dynadrive or a centrifugal clutch.

Peter

Can you name one ? - & are are you speaking for everyone or is that a typo ?

Most other ppl seem to be quite happy with it.

Give them (Vi) a chance for

s sake - if they don't take on board reasonable input for their next effort then slate them - if not it'll serve you all right if that's the 1st & last UK outline loco they will produce.

You don't have to buy it - there is still H, B & the other H.

 

[Gary]

From accounts elsewhere it does seem that these models are selling out.

The limited edition David Lloyd George is now sold out and the Regional Railways livery is moving fast. A good start for this new company especially when folk were a little unsure what to expect. I am firm in the belief that this is a good value mainline diesel model for £50 and if the only real issue is the horns then buyers will be happy. Its pretty much down to how stockists react to the request for replacements as to how the company is viewed on this.

The packaging comes up to Chris Leigh's standards. The DCC decoder is easy peasy to install with no body fixing screw to mess with. It has lights at both ends. It has two flywheels to help slow speed running. Its almost certainly got the hauling power of more expensive locos. I'll probably fit a decoder next week as it is so easy and I am encouraged to fit one as a result. Complex body removal arrangements do put me off. The loco will get a run at Warley MRC on Tuesday and I have a rake of 10 BR blue coaches to take along. Running in should sort out any drive noise.

I am struggling to really see what the issues are if there really are any. Its interesting to observe that where retailers have taken pictures of this model for their own websites the horns of the models pictured also have damage!

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Oakydoke]

QUOTE (Gary @ 4 Mar 2007, 16:27) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I am struggling to really see what the issues are if there really are any.

Gary
Should've gone to SpecSavers!

 

[Pennine MC]

QUOTE (Ravenser @ 4 Mar 2007, 11:21) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>As for haulage tests can I be provocative and suggest a head to head test with any Bachmann 37 anyone can find? I doubt if the Bachmann loco would be disgraced (I have a hazy recollection the new Bachmann 37/4 will have a new 6 axle drive mechanism, or it this merely confabulation? )
I share that recollection Rave, and the item currently on Bachmann's website confirms it.

Cant quite see the big issue as regards 6-axle drive - it either pulls what you want it to, or it doesn't. Does it matter *how* it does it?

QUOTE (Gary @ 4 Mar 2007, 13:55) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Old Lima and Hornby stuff seems to have a good shape to me and millions like me. Is it simply a point scoring thing?

I am afraid that forums that are full of that sort of tosh are a total bore.

I dont think you'd find one that's *actually* "full of it". And all forums have their boring bits y'know

QUOTE (Gary @ 4 Mar 2007, 16:27) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>From accounts elsewhere it does seem that these models are selling out. ..I am struggling to really see what the issues are if there really are any.
There most certainly are 'issues', Gary, as there will always be until the day that the perfect model is produced. Until that halcyon day, I see no problem with discussing shortcomings in a reasonable manner in order that prospective buyers can make their individual judgments. If you, or Alastair, are happy with it for 50 quid, then that's a perfectly valid viewpoint. But there are much broader issues involved, as myself and others have touched on.

 

[Gary]

I 've looked at various images I have found on the web and compared angles and I really am struggling with this one. The image below has the same livery as David Lloyd George and I have held my model up against the image at the same angle and whilst the bottom skirt could be deeper the rest of the loco looks good. There may be practical issues with mould removal or the chassis that limit what can be done with this lower skirt on the model. The ride height seems just about perfect so again I am struggling to appreciate the comments that the model is riding high. Mention has been made of a nose aerial and I cannot see one in this image. And looking at the image the yellow seems the right factory fresh shade to me! :-

The website with further images is at www.brelimited.co.uk

Maybe others who own the model would care to look at the image and share their thoughts.

What will be inevitable is that comparisons will be made with the new Bachmann version and at this time only Bachmann know the type of feedback to expect when the two models are placed side by side as Bachmann may well have a ViTrains model on their development desk as we speak!

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[alastairq]

I hope mine turns up tomorrow. I didn't want to own up on Saturday in the model shop, to having pre-ordered one from 'elsewhere'...I felt guilty at not supporting, etc...but since I only visit occasionally....I didn't realise they'd stock the thing!

One 'problem' I have noticed with Bachmann diesels is the ''rigidity'' of ride in their trucks....less forgiving of dubious trackwork?

I'll see how the Vitrains version handles my little lad's portable, foldable, layout....with its unavoidable setrack points...and real life wheel squealer curves!

 

[7113]

Overall I would say, having looked at the pix posted by Gary, it's not a bad looking model and to my mind seems good value for £50.00. However to my mind something looks wrong around the nose somewhere. No not the yellow. This may be due to the detailing parts not being present.....

Regards

John

 

[ninja]

Is it not refreshing that we have a manufacturer that has announced a product in January and has released it in March the same year, instead of as in Bachamanns case the obligatory 2 year wait for their 37/4. Granted there are a couple of points which are not quite right but hopefully the manufacturer will learn from this, the UK market needs another force together with Heljan which can keep the Hornby's (which are already trying to push the boundries of pricing as far as it can go) and Bachamnns on their toes, good luck to VI Trains.

 

[davidw]

Sorry guys' but I can not stand back on this one...

I don't model the current scene. I model the early 60's ECML. So plenty of transision diesels

I am surprised by the tone that some have used in this thread. Email's and chat rooms I know can not always convey the correct expression of tone, but really guys. This hobby is supposed to be fun. I saw the Vi trains 37 last Friday.

It's not bad at all - and at £50.00 the model railway bargain of the year. The owner of the model shop placed a Bachman, Lima, Hornby, and Vi train version on a test track.

+IMHO, it wasn't bad - ok I did feel the best was the bachmann (but the RRP £15.00 more) the lima and hornby also rans. For my modelling I have to weather, paint and and fiddle, kit and scratch build - but isn't that part of the fun.

And the yellow front a little toy like.

But if ViTrains brought out an early 60's 37 I would probably get one ( I say probably as I've already two Bachmann). This thread does seem to be getting unnecessarily heated...