[portisheaddan]

Hi, I have a western enterprise loco but there is a wire running from the motor to the front bogie hanging off. It seams to go to a brass pin but Im not sure.
Anyone know what it does and how it could make the train run.

dan

 

[HPVictor]

Hello Dan.

That wire is used to collect current from the wheels on that bogie. It helps minimise the loco stalling on points etc that would occur if current was only being picked up by the wheels on the motor bogie.

The wire should be soldered back to where it came off which I think is on a spring cip that fits onto the metal bogie pivot that connects the bogie to the floor of the loco body. ... at least I think that's right! I'll check mine when I go home tonight and get back to you.

Of course you should also check the usual suspects such as dirty wheels, motor and gears in need of lubrication etc.

Steve

 

[portisheaddan]

Great thanks for helping. My dad retrieved a load of stuff from his loft the other day. I'm guessing its been up there 20 years since in was at school ! So I thought Id get some of it up and running .

I don't seam to get any power from the motor at all until I touch this brass pin at the front with this long wire. And even then its very hap hazard. The pin seams to flap about too loosely. Ive unclipped the bottom of the bogie and taken out the wheels and this pin just seams to hang there. I don't see how it can get a constant power feed if any at all. Im sure something is missing.
Ill take a photo later of its under parts ! and maybe send it to you for comparison if poss.

Dan

 

[Dinwiddy]

QUOTE (portisheaddan @ 6 Mar 2009, 13:27) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Great thanks for helping. My dad retrieved a load of stuff from his loft the other day. I'm guessing its been up there 20 years since in was at school ! So I thought Id get some of it up and running .

I don't seam to get any power from the motor at all until I touch this brass pin at the front with this long wire. And even then its very hap hazard. The pin seams to flap about too loosely. Ive unclipped the bottom of the bogie and taken out the wheels and this pin just seams to hang there. I don't see how it can get a constant power feed if any at all. Im sure something is missing.
Ill take a photo later of its under parts ! and maybe send it to you for comparison if poss.

Dan
Hi Dan, I assume it is a Lima loco? The unpowered bogie should have a spring loaded pin which is pulled up inside the chassis and held in place by a forked clip which the wire is soldered to. This both secures the bogie in place and provides power to the motor in the other bogie. As this loco should have traction tyres on one side of the powered bogie it is unable to collect electricity there and relies on the other bogie to do this for it hence the wire connection.
It is also worth checking that the flat pickups on the unpowered bogie are present and bearing down on the axels and that the wheels are fitted the right way round and both picking up the current for the tyred side. I have lost count of the number of repairs I have had simply because either or both pairs of wheels are on the wrong way round after being 'serviced' and therefore shorting out!
Hope I havn't confused you
Regards
David Y

 

[HPVictor]

Yes the wire should be soldered to the brass pin. Another thing that might be preventing the loco from operating properly is that the motor and gears may be clogged with dirt and dust.

This might sound wacky, but you will find that if you give that whole motor, gear and wheel assembly a good slosh around in a bowl of warm water with detergent in it, a lot of that muck will be washed out. I suggest you then rinse everything under a running warm water tap and leave it to air dry for a good 24 hours.

After you are sure it is dry, a tiny bit of oil on the axles, gears and motor spindle should help things along. I'd also suggest giving all the wheels without traction tyres a bit of a going over with either a track rubber or a cotton-bud dipped in methylated spirits. Ordinarily the areas that make contact with the track should be bright and shiny or at least free from black gunge.

I've done it and it works a treat!

Those old Lima Westerns are rugged beasts and although not up to the aesthetic standards of the newer Heljans, still look ok to average enthusiast and are quite powerful.

Steve

 

[portisheaddan]

Steve, I have no traction tyres. They are missing. Will that make any differance to power pick up at the moment?

 

[portisheaddan]

Ok, this drive bogie will only run when I touch the long wire (that should attach to the front pin) on the rain or opposite wheel on the rear bogie. I have taken a photo of it so you can see if there is something missing from the front bogie. Im sure that the brass pin is too loose. There is no way it will make constant contact at the front to make the motor run. What do you think? The pin is just dapping on the middle axle which should then contact the other rail to enable power pickup. Here a link to my photo.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/hKvUO...feat=directlink

 

[portisheaddan]

The other link does not work. try here.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/hKvUO...feat=directlink

 

[portisheaddan]

How Do I get the power to transfer through the brass pin to the wheels to the track?

 

[philden]

Looking at your photo, there is no sign of any attachment points for extra pickups to the wheels. So here is how I think it should work, I'm pretty sure I have a similar loco.

I think that the entire bogie should be live, but that the wheels on one side should be insulated from it. So pickup is via the axles, which are only connected electrically to the wheels on one side. The wheels on the other side will have a plastic insulator of some kind.

To test this, get a multimeter and test continuity from each axle to its wheels. If I am correct, you'll see an electrical connection to wheels on one side only.

If this is true, then next test continuity between the body of the bogie and each axle. If this fails, then you probably have a build up of muck acting as an insulator around the axles. Cleaning should fix this.

If there is continuity between the axles and the bogie, then the fault will be the connectivity of the brass pin to the bogie. Test this with a multimeter and clean if necessary.

Hope this makes sense....

Phil.

 

[Captin Slog]

Hi

Looking at your photo, you are either not showing all the parts........or some are missing! As previously mentioned, there should be a spring between the pin-head and where it passes through the plastic upper bogie. There should also be a brass contact strip that the pin goes through before the spring, which bears on the two outer axles.......ie as you look down on the upturned bogie, the axles sit on the contact strip. Holding all this in place is the plastic tray that clips on the bottom of the bogie.

The pick up wheels are the ones without the plastic bushes around the axle and they both should be on the same side as the power bogie traction tyres (or wheels with grooves in if they are missing) as you look down on the upside down loco. You should also have a clip that fits around the pin sticking out of the bogie (you need to pull it up against the spring tension to see it) and this should have your loose wire soldered to it. If this sounds double dutch, let me know and I'll post some photos.
regards Steve S

 

[portisheaddan]

Hi Steve, all I have is what you see. Can you post a picture for me? Need a little help here then to get it going!

dan

 

[philden]

I'v had another think about this and am looking at my Lima Class 50. The bogie molding looks similar. If your bogie is plastic, then there are definitely missing parts, and my previous reply was nonsense.

There should be a metal cover across the axles which presumably contains some spring contacts to the axles as well as to the copper connector. If everything was in place you would not be able to see the underside of that connector, or the axles of the wheelsets.

Phil.

 

[portisheaddan]

Hi Phil. Indeed the bogie is plastic. I need to find some way of permanantly connecting that pin to the axles. Something to bare down on them.

 

[portisheaddan]

Oh and yes there is a cover to go over the wheel axles. Ive removed it for the photo. Its a plastic cover.

 

[Dinwiddy]

QUOTE (portisheaddan @ 7 Mar 2009, 16:56) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The other link does not work. try here.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/hKvUO...feat=directlink

Hi again - there are a couple of bits missing; a phosphor-bronze strip which runs from end to end of the bogie. It is curved or bent so that each end makes a rubbing contact with the leading and trailing axels. Power passes from the wheel to the axel on the un-insulated side ie the axels are 'live'. This strip has a hole in the center which lines up with the pin that your picture shows ie the pin passes through this pick-up strip before going through the plastic bogie. There needs to be a spring between the back of the pick-up strip and the inner surface of the plastic bogie as the connection needs a bit of tension to ensure good current transfer. The pin goes through the chassis and is pulled through against the tension of the spring. The pin has a groove cut completely round it about half way along and a two forked 'prong' fits here and locks the bogie in place. The loose wire should really be soldered to this and not the pin for ease of dismantling/servicing etc. I have in the past obtained Lima spares from
MB Models
32 Conery Gardens
Whatton in the Vale
Notts
NG13 9FD
01949 850063
I have no idea if they are still around as the last confirmation I had was 2007.
Regards

David Y