what do you think
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QUOTE (zep108 @ 20 Dec 2006, 14:07) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>after the king arther comes out hornby intend to fit there dcc chip to all locos this will put £10.00 on the price if you want one or not your thoughts please
This subject has been aired before !
Personally I do not want to buy a locomotove with a "bean counters" choice of decoder on board. Some basic decoders do not have some features that are a basic requirement for me. " Two examples are the ability to limit maximum speed & starting voltage also the ability to support Lenz bracking sections (OK that's three).
If it's easy to change the factory fitted bean counters decoder for a fully featured one then it's not too bad because the redundant decoders could alway be "eBayed". I suspect though that factory fitted will probably mean built onto the PCB or hard wired.
This comment is purely a personal opinion.
This subject has been aired before !
Personally I do not want to buy a locomotove with a "bean counters" choice of decoder on board. Some basic decoders do not have some features that are a basic requirement for me. " Two examples are the ability to limit maximum speed & starting voltage also the ability to support Lenz bracking sections (OK that's three).
If it's easy to change the factory fitted bean counters decoder for a fully featured one then it's not too bad because the redundant decoders could alway be "eBayed". I suspect though that factory fitted will probably mean built onto the PCB or hard wired.
This comment is purely a personal opinion.
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QUOTE (dbclass50 @ 21 Dec 2006, 04:43) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>This subject has been aired before !
Personally I do not want to buy a locomotove with a "bean counters" choice of decoder on board. Some basic decoders do not have some features that are a basic requirement for me. " Two examples are the ability to limit maximum speed & starting voltage also the ability to support Lenz bracking sections (OK that's three).
If it's easy to change the factory fitted bean counters decoder for a fully featured one then it's not too bad because the redundant decoders could alway be "eBayed". I suspect though that factory fitted will probably mean built onto the PCB or hard wired.
This comment is purely a personal opinion.
I agree with all of the above.
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Personally I do not want to buy a locomotove with a "bean counters" choice of decoder on board. Some basic decoders do not have some features that are a basic requirement for me. " Two examples are the ability to limit maximum speed & starting voltage also the ability to support Lenz bracking sections (OK that's three).
If it's easy to change the factory fitted bean counters decoder for a fully featured one then it's not too bad because the redundant decoders could alway be "eBayed". I suspect though that factory fitted will probably mean built onto the PCB or hard wired.
This comment is purely a personal opinion.
I agree with all of the above.
QUOTE I suspect though that factory fitted will probably mean built onto the PCB or hard wired.
Now that would not be desirable at all in a situation where a basic limited function decoder is fitted as standard. It makes future Hornby decoder upgrades messy always assuming that Hornby will be extending their range of decoders. What route have other manufacturers taken who have gone over to entirely dcc onboard scenarios?
Happy modelling
Gary
Now that would not be desirable at all in a situation where a basic limited function decoder is fitted as standard. It makes future Hornby decoder upgrades messy always assuming that Hornby will be extending their range of decoders. What route have other manufacturers taken who have gone over to entirely dcc onboard scenarios?
Happy modelling
Gary
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Personally I would prefer just the connector be available except in special cases where the installation of a decoder would just be too difficult for the intermediate modeller such as N Scale Steam locomotive without a tender, etc.
If this is to be the case then I personally find it a very worrying development, especially for those who do not wish tu pursue digital operation. If any manufacturer is seriously contemplating this line of service i would ask them to reconsider.
Regards
John
Regards
John
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As I mentioned in another thread I would be disappointed if Hornby removed the NEM 652 plug and then fitted a decoder which didn't provide the advanced features found in decoders from ESU, Lenz and Zimo such as ABC braking and RailCom. It would be a shame if a locomotive with an RRP of £115 had an unremovable basic decoder with a retail cost of £9.
David
David
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QUOTE What route have other manufacturers taken who have gone over to entirely dcc onboard scenarios?
Continental manufacturers Roco, Trix, Brawa, Lilliput tend to use ESU Lokpilot or Loksound decoders. These are good and you will get few complaints. It would be an extremely unique individual who is going to want to change one iof these decoders.
BLI who are American use the QSI decoders which aren't as good although their sister company Precision Craft have learned from this and use ESU Loksound.
The moral is don't instal a decoder unless you are going to instal a top of the line one. It just makes things considerably harder.
Continental manufacturers Roco, Trix, Brawa, Lilliput tend to use ESU Lokpilot or Loksound decoders. These are good and you will get few complaints. It would be an extremely unique individual who is going to want to change one iof these decoders.
BLI who are American use the QSI decoders which aren't as good although their sister company Precision Craft have learned from this and use ESU Loksound.
The moral is don't instal a decoder unless you are going to instal a top of the line one. It just makes things considerably harder.
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....again I agree with all what has been said above. I purchased a Bachman Jinty with fitted decoder but when I realised that basic decoders were being used I e:mailed my LHS to cancel my orders for subsequent decoder-fitted locos (including the sound versions)
My e:mail was forwarded by my LHS to Bachmann where, to put it mildly, it ruffled a few feathers. The outcome of it was that Bachmann knew what I thought of the basic decoders but they assured my LHS that the sound-equipped locos would be fitted with top-of-the range decoders. Since then I have purchased the sound-equipped Cl.66 and Cl.20 and, as yet, have no complaints.
As regards Hornby, I won't be pre-ordering any new Hornby locos until I know what has been fitted in them, and even then, probably won't be buying any, as Hornby so far has not given any indication as to whether they will be producing sound-equipped locos. I will let my LHS know my intentions so hopefully the message will get to Hornby just as it did to Bachmann.
So may I suggest that as many of us do what I have done. Make your views known to your LHS (assuming you buy from a LHS!!) who, hopefully, will get the message to the manufacturers.
My e:mail was forwarded by my LHS to Bachmann where, to put it mildly, it ruffled a few feathers. The outcome of it was that Bachmann knew what I thought of the basic decoders but they assured my LHS that the sound-equipped locos would be fitted with top-of-the range decoders. Since then I have purchased the sound-equipped Cl.66 and Cl.20 and, as yet, have no complaints.
As regards Hornby, I won't be pre-ordering any new Hornby locos until I know what has been fitted in them, and even then, probably won't be buying any, as Hornby so far has not given any indication as to whether they will be producing sound-equipped locos. I will let my LHS know my intentions so hopefully the message will get to Hornby just as it did to Bachmann.
So may I suggest that as many of us do what I have done. Make your views known to your LHS (assuming you buy from a LHS!!) who, hopefully, will get the message to the manufacturers.
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QUOTE (neil_s_wood @ 21 Dec 2006, 21:50) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Continental manufacturers Roco, Trix, Brawa, Lilliput tend to use ESU Lokpilot or Loksound decoders. These are good and you will get few complaints. It would be an extremely unique individual who is going to want to change one iof these decoders.
My two Fleischmann ESU Loksound (factory fitted) equiped locos (a DB 218 Diesel & a DB 103 OHE) are fine & I have no complaints at all about the performance at all - both these locos have the "old style" 3-pole motor. So it proves Neils point - fit a decent decoder to start with ! (It probably helps to avoid any warranty issues as well.)
My two Fleischmann ESU Loksound (factory fitted) equiped locos (a DB 218 Diesel & a DB 103 OHE) are fine & I have no complaints at all about the performance at all - both these locos have the "old style" 3-pole motor. So it proves Neils point - fit a decent decoder to start with ! (It probably helps to avoid any warranty issues as well.)
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QUOTE The outcome of it was that Bachmann knew what I thought of the basic decoders but they assured my LHS that the sound-equipped locos would be fitted with top-of-the range decoders. Since then I have purchased the sound-equipped Cl.66 and Cl.20 and, as yet, have no complaints.Keith these are top quality decoders. They are ESU Loksound ones and should be very good.
Brian I didn't comment on the Fleischmann decoders because I wasn't sure which ones they use. Good to here they use Loksound too.
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Brian I didn't comment on the Fleischmann decoders because I wasn't sure which ones they use. Good to here they use Loksound too.
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QUOTE (neil_s_wood @ 21 Dec 2006, 23:42) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Brian I didn't comment on the Fleischmann decoders because I wasn't sure which ones they use. Good to here they use Loksound too.
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I am almost certain that all the FLM sound equiped locos use ESU & the DCC on board use their "own" decoder. Not that many people use the FLM one because of the price !
BTW - the 218 had so much 24/7 testing to verify the reliability of the decoder itself I evenually had to replace the drive unit because the axel holes had worn oval ! There was no problem at all from the decoder & it never ran too hot - quite warm but not hot.
I am almost certain that all the FLM sound equiped locos use ESU & the DCC on board use their "own" decoder. Not that many people use the FLM one because of the price !
BTW - the 218 had so much 24/7 testing to verify the reliability of the decoder itself I evenually had to replace the drive unit because the axel holes had worn oval ! There was no problem at all from the decoder & it never ran too hot - quite warm but not hot.
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