What happens to the broken ones?????????

Well in my case bought a Heljan c2701 from a reputable retailer - on receipt of the 2701, I found the black plastic decal Pt.30 was broken off. Heljan after sales certainly answered my "help signal" by return of E-mail - informing me that replacement is on its way to me and apologies for the fault. More than I can say for the retailer's silence.

Anyway as one answer to this topic raised by "smiley" - in this instance repair will be carried out by me or failing this a postage of £6.00 to send back to retailer, insurance and most probably a long wait for its return.

I have maintained for years that items or in this case, model railways and accessories found with a fault, requiring repair that all costs incurred in "returns" should be met by the specific manufacturer
and not the buyer.
Why should the buyer incur further costs to the retail price paid for that specific item. I certainly am sure, that items requiring returns through faulty manufacture - cost of returns was funded by the manufacturer, would certainly entail a more thorough inspection prior to reaching a retailers shelf.

Better still , all models should be properly tested , quality assured before they leave the factory. Not just on a sample basis.

How many of us have suffered bad models:

- just don't go
- bad quartering
- bad running

They can't have been tested!

If you were buying any other goods you would expect it to be fit for consumption/purpose. Model railway manufacturers get away with murder and to an extent we, the enthusiast public ,are our own worst enemy. By this I mean we frequently take a screw driver to the model to try and fix it.

Oh I hear you cry - just return it.

Well frankly I shouldn't have to . Furthermore returning it can be very inconvenient

-bought at exhibition
-bought by mail order
-made a special trip to buy from model shop (they are not in every major town these days)
-bought as a gift

All this can cause further cost and inconvenience and embarrasment (if its a gift and it doesn't go!)

Finally there's the disappointment of it all. Little Johnny unwrapping his new engine only to find it doesn't go or it waddles down the track and falls off at the next point- all because our esteemed manufacturers accept that a certain % of their goods will be faulty and they can't be bothered testing 100%

Russell

>Better still , all models should be properly tested , quality assured before they leave the factory. Not just on a sample basis.

Sadly, this is not how the manufacturing business works. Only small industries that produce a small number of products could do this. If bachmann or hornby were to inspect EVERY single item before being sent to the shops then the cost would double. Remember that there will be visual inspection points for all models at some point in the process, but they will not pick up everything.

It is standard practise throughout the manufacturing industry that samples are tested fully. If a set number fail these tests, then the batch is withdrawn and 100% inspection and testing is applied. It is totally unrealistic to do it any other way. It does work well. I have over 100 locos and so far only one that I needed to return.

Another point to consider is that many faults will not be present at the manufacturing stage and will only occur during the shipping process.

All in, the manufacturing process hornby and bachmann follow is exactly the same as the rest of the industry currently follows.

For several decades, manufacturers have maintained that it is far cheaper to have little or no inspection prior to dispatch to retailers. Any returns of faulty articles are exchanged for a new article that will be in this instance checked for faults and sent to the retailer or customer with usual "compliments" slip enclosed.
However, the cost of returning article, in some instances quite high depending on weight and size, is placed squarely on the customer to fork out - if article was fit for the purpose it was sold, no extra costs should be incurred by the customer other than the original retail price.
Imagine going into a store - choosing an article paying the marked price £xxxx and told "if you are unlucky to find a fault. You will incur an extra charge £xx for return of article and no guarantee that replacement will be any better". Other than buying from a local store, additional costs to return will be met by the buyer.

QUOTE >Better still , all models should be properly tested , quality assured before they leave the factory. Not just on a sample basis.

Sadly, this is not how the manufacturing business works. Only small industries that produce a small number of products could do this. If bachmann or hornby were to inspect EVERY single item before being sent to the shops then the cost would double

It does depend on the business and what is being made. A simple assembly process fits the sample testing process. However a more complicated assembly would require a risk assessment (of it not working) and possibly a full test. My conention is that valve gear, coupling rods and quartering of wheels is just such an assembly and should be tested.

Sample testing should also only be carried out if there is not a risk of variability in the construction of each item. Clearly there is variability here!

I noticed that in BRMs Bachmann article last month there's a picture of a lady with a circle of track testing a train. Hornby catalogues in the past also made much of the tested before it leaves the factory claim (if I remember correctly there were pictures of the Flying Scotsman being tested). So the manufacturers would like us to think items are tested- its just the reality thats diffirent!

Russell