[Gordon H]

It seems to me that the best way to avoid all this confusion and uncertainty about compatibility issues is for the manufacturers to produce a check list for their DCC products indicating which paragraphs of the NMRA Standards and RPs their kit is intended to implement - and even more importantly, those which it does not. With such a list it would become an easy matter for experts in the field to comment with more certainty. Equally, if any manufacturer claims they cannot provide such a list, it is a clear indication that they don't know exactly what it is they are producing, from which we can draw equally useful conclusions!

 

[Doug]

Can you imagine being a director of a company and publishing a list of how incompatible your product is with some standard or another?

Unless public safety is at risk and the product is evaluated by an independent body, nobody is going to make know any shortcoming of a product.

 

[Gary]

Long lists put the British public off DCC entirely. Its the last thing the public want to see. And they generally are turned off by a handful of self appointed opiniated "experts" debating every point, point by point. If a manufacturer states that a product is compatible with a standard than that alone should be good enough for the customer. It is when it comes to kitemarks and safety standards. We have to remember that any standard is really there for the manufacturer and the manufacturer alone.

All the technology adverse British public want to know is that if you turn this knob it does that, and if you push that button this happens.

Its the self appointed "experts" with their constant waffle that sets digital back in the UK. Everybody gets totally bamboozled by it all.

Full stop. End of story.

The professional reviewers in the paper based mags do a pretty sound job and I would certainly suggest that information from this source is unbiased and aimed at a broad readership.

At this time I am uncomfortable recommending any DCC forum to any newbie to visit including this one and that is very sad. And this is because of the "I know better than you" attitude that all DCC forums seem to suffer to a greater or lesser degree. It puts DCC in such a bad light and puts people off taking it any further.

The reviews at Model Rail Forum are fantastic

its just the forum itself where it goes a bit pear shaped.

Lets make a commitment to have a waffle free zone at Model Rail Forum and to keep it simple and keep out all the attitude.

This would actually make for a fantastic resource if only the DCC techies would understand this!

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gary]

Also the focus really has to be on what British modellers actually want.

And do they indeed need digital at all?

This is the real challenge facing the sellers of digital in the UK.

The British modeller almost certainly does want compatibility in a system and it would make sense to market a system as being compatible to the UK modeller.

And as it makes sense then it would follow that any manufacturer designing a system with the UK market in mind would have an aim of making in compatible.

However there may be other things that British modellers actually want before they will switch to digital with compatibility being part of this bigger picture.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Brian Considine]

Here we go again............

As I am probably one of the "self appointed experts" that Gary ("I only know about the Select") Hornby so despises I am going to keep right out of this (probably).

I suggest that you do as well Gary.

Otherwise it will all end the same way !

Pehaps we will have more actual imformation after Borely (sorry Warley).

 

[Doug]

I asked Gary to remove everything after his first paragraph as it didn't have anything to do with the topic.

He doesn't want to and feels that he has to say this. Unfortunately what is happening is that everyone is just saying what they feel - all the time - every where possible.

We need to move on. If someone wants to open a topic on a concept - no matter how technical or specific to a particular niche - we should let him do so. We are not here just for the sake of beginners and we are not just pontificating experts either.

Do I close this one like the others? The next few posts will determine that, so please take note of this.

 

[7113]

QUOTE (Gary @ 28 Nov 2006, 13:07) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Long lists put the British public off DCC entirely. Its the last thing the public want to see. And they generally are turned off by a handful of self appointed opiniated "experts" debating every point, point by point. If a manufacturer states that a product is compatible with a standard than that alone should be good enough for the customer. It is when it comes to kitemarks and safety standards. We have to remember that any standard is really there for the manufacturer and the manufacturer alone.
Lets make a commitment to have a waffle free zone at Model Rail Forum and to keep it simple and keep out all the attitude.

Happy modelling
Gary

I very rarely comment on the DCC part of MRF, for the simple reason I don't know enough about it, however, I at least am honest enough to admit it! I read the DCC entries with a view to deciding which control system I will be using, if indeed I ever do go down the DCC route.

It seems to me that Gary is in fact a self appointed expert on just about every field and topic on railways real and model and accordingly will persist in continue with the waffling on that he accuses the DCC techies of doing.

Please Gary, let people like me who want to read and learn about DCC do so without yet another pointless row occuring.

Doug I actually agree with you.

Regards

John

 

[Gary]

QUOTE Pehaps we will have more actual imformation after Warley

That would seem a reasonable objective.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (Doug @ 28 Nov 2006, 15:26) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Do I close this one like the others? The next few posts will determine that, so please take note of this.

Yes - close it.

Gordon H (a newish member) put forward a relevant good (but maybe impractical suggestion as you said Doug) but, except for the first paragraph Gary hijacked it. For pity's sake Gary the fact that the other threads were closed should have told you something - leave it alone for a while - go to Warley the weekend, enjoy yourself & chill out !

As this flaming just keeps revolving round the Select/Elite/compatability issues/Gary/self appointed experts & no-one really knows at this stage the actual facts I suggest that any further discussion regarding Hornby Digital Products is put on hold until later.

Lets leave it until Phil Grainger (a respected reveiwer from one of Gary's favoured publications) or someone else unbiased (as far as can be) does a proper review & then let the discussions start again.

I'm willing to call a halt now (but I won't just let others get a free reign) so - "are you in agreement Gary ?"

P.S. During the time I typed this both Britho & Gary posted so please take this into consideration.

 

[Gary]

QUOTE I'm willing to call a halt now (but I won't just let others get a free reign) so - "are you in agreement Gary ?"

Model Rail Forum surely is here to generally encourage not discourage and there was evidence in other threads that what was being said was counterproductive.

The fact of the matter is I could see the same old arguments resurfacing and said as much to Doug in a private PM and it was frustration that this was likely that caused me to express the concerns stated although in a rather more blunt way than normal.

Thats my point of view and I am very content to wait and see what transpires at Warley.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gwent rail]

I too wouldn't be worried if this topic is closed off.

I agree with Britho's point that it should be possible to read a DCC thread which is informative and helpful, without having to wade through pages of name calling and point scoring. Earlier in the year we did that in a DCC thread I started, asking for advice. Even that provoked some very polarized views, but at least they were factual and informative.

Now to Gary's point about the forum going "a bit pear shaped" ----- I hope we are not suggesting that we should have a fully sterilized forum good buddy, because that would be BOOOOOOOOOORING.
Part of the fun of websites such as this is that one can become involved in a lively and informative discussion on a favourite topic.

That said, I must agree with Gary that any DCC topic always seems to become very emotive, so we should all take note of that point.

Finally to the sport we seem to have invented called "winding up Gary". It must be said that this has been an ongoing feature of MRF for sometime and occasionally has some humour. Just be careful guys to stop yourselves from being personal, we should all know when to draw the line, even if Gary is SO BIASED.

Have fun and be good!!

 

[Doug]

Gary, the rats are jumping ship...

What will Warley bring to and debate on DCC? (rhetorical)

Lets take it easy with DCC topics until someone crash tests a Hornby Elite. Please take some photos if anyone does it before me.

If Warley can shed light on these burning issues then we can talk about it next week.