[John Edge]

I have a J6 but it fell apart never quite repaired this one it being a kit of course, but being brutally honest the mass produced models are much better especially more recently than a 40 year old kit would be. So yes a J6 would also be a good choice but I slightly favour the K2 all the same.

That depends on the kit and the builder thereof!
To my eternal shame and regret, I had a lovely kit built J6 many years ago that I sold on a whim. As far as details go, I cannot say but I clearly recall the mechanism. The wheels were properly round, It had springing on maybe two axles and an excellent gearbox as well as a decent motor giving silky smooth running. It ran really well but it showed up the abysmal running of all my other LNER locomotives at that time, Airfix N2, Mainline (?) J72, Hornby J52, maybe others. That was the mid 1980’s.
I understand from reading these pages that current versions of the above, are much improved and I have been tempted but a high quality J6 would do the trick for me.
I’ll give up my H0 scale red & blacks, only when they are pried from my cold dead hands but a 4mm scale diversion would be welcome here in Greece.
The big BUT is that any such loco has to perform as well as my smaller scale stuff.
John E.

 

[John Edge]

Rather than new models being created, notwithstanding that some models may have actual dimensional/shape errors, I'd prefer that manufacturers fix the problems on their existing models. Manufacturers have been making model trains for long enough to know what works and what doesn't. Unfortunately, we seem to have had a few new 'kids on the block' who thought they knew better and this has resulted in mistakes which have long since been solved suddenly rearing their heads again almost like no-one ever learns!

Things I would like to see fixed:

1) The Hattons/Heljan class 14 is an absolute disaster: Heljan Class 14 Modifications - Model Railways On-Line Please fix it Hattons/Heljan before you start reproducing more of this tat!
2) The Kernow class 41 had a motor that was completely unfit for purpose. I believe that it had origins from a 'new kid on the block' who also created similar problems in another range of locos
3) Dapol need to get their class 22 gear ratios right. At the moment, it is too high such that the motor can't turn slow enough to make the loco creep along without jerking to the vibration of slow motor revolutions. Optimal gear ratios have been known for half a century. Why are we still getting this wrong ?
4) Hattons need to fix their P tank so that it actually accepts the decoder that they advertise for it! Or at least make the model so it will accept other decoders without requiring chassis grinding: Hattons SECR P Tank Review - Model Railways On-Line
5) Loco manufacturers to stop putting body attachment screws directly behind the centre of buffer beams. Believe it or not, some of us actually fit prototype couplings and are not wedded to the NEM socket fad, so we need the space behind the buffer beam! Put the screws on the corners, not the middle!
6) Manufacturers to design their locos in ways that make them straightforward to dismantle. Hornby have go this right. Bachmann have always been a bit behind with their steam locos. Heljan completely stuffed up their class 14
7) Dapol need to fix their quality control on their electronics: many of their locos seem to be delivered with defective motherboards in their first release. Upside down decoder sockets or incorrectly/oppositely wired wired sockets are not on!

I just want to see manufacturers stop making stupid mistakes with really basic stuff that were long since fixed in the hobby half a century ago!

Dear Graham,
One of the problems with the Heljan/Hattons class 14 is that it is essentially an 0-8-0 chassis, length wise - it’s due to the jackshaft drive being within the main wheelbase.
If the prototype had the drive at the end like a class 03 for example, us modellers would have had less problems!
I had one of these when they were first released, I ran it in well on 00 track with analog control and all was well. Later I fitted my pre-ordered set of P4 wheels from Ultrascale, I had to wait some time for these.
Having read up numerous times how to go about it, I was very, very careful - one of the first things I did was to remove the cab steps for example! Yes, I had trouble fitting a decoder but I managed it okay. I spent time, money and effort finding something small enough that could actually power it but I did it because I wanted it to work! Not a problem now though, it’s easy to get such powerful but tiny decoders.
I actually wrote up how I did it all for my club magazine, the MMRS “Link”, no idea now what issue, sorry. My friend and colleague from that time, Craig Welsh, was going to etch a P4 chassis but I don’t know if he ever did.
All I’m saying is that I don’t think this model is quite as bad as you are indicating and believe me, if I get a chance to knock Heljan - I take it!
John E.

 

[John Edge]

Thanks for your replies, Graham and Paul!

Here's a question then John, what's the opinion of Heljan's steam / rod coupled models in HO world? I have never seen an appraisal of such.

I’ve only seen online opinion about the HJ “V65”, which is a Genuine 0-8-0 diesel centre cab. This was a model that I desired very much when I modelled Danish outline.
Opinion on “Stummis“ forum seemed very negative towards it and therefore I wasn’t prepared to spend nearly £300 to find out for myself. Steam locomotives, I don’t know anything about, sorry.
John E.

PS sorry, my iPad is ready playing up at the moment

 

[John Edge]

Thanks John.

I agree that the class 14 is essentially an 0-8-0, however, I'm not sure that makes any difference when compared with the 03 because that also has 4 axles and is essentially in an 0-8-0. The only thing that makes the two different is that the position of the jackshaft of the 14 causes the coupled wheelbase to be longer. Irrespective of that, the principals of how the coupling rods are aligned and the level of side-play apply equally to both types on all axles, jack or wheel.

I approached my class 14 with a completely open mind. I knew it had excessive axle side-play that was causing it to 'waddle'. I had an idea that some kind of washer or padding was going to be necessary. I also knew that it had jerky motion in one direction. It also seemed to 'lift' a bit on one corner. I figured that this may either be decoder related or mechanical and quickly realised it was more likely to be the latter as decoder issues usually occur in both directions.

I approached it methodically and carefully - I've hand built dozens of locos in my time (4mm and 7mm), so I'm probably a bit of a first time starter.

To be able to fix the side-play, I had to find a way to remove the wheels. I didn't want to remove wheels from their axles as I didn't want to mess up the quartering. This meant I was either into e clips or some kind of padding out of the chassis facia. I chose the latter and quickly found the chassis facia was made of an awful type of plastic that can't be glued and it is actually 'hot melted' to attach it to the metal inner chassis block. I persevered and 3D printed some extra 'horn guides'. These solved the side-play issue.
The jackshaft needed an 'e clip' type solution for which I made up plastic washers and this also worked fine. It was at that point that I found that the coupling rods are not all in line because the jackshaft is not the same length as the wheel axles. Problem #1 which I couldn't solve, but I could put up with it as it wasn't going to cause a physical problem no that I had the new horn guides in place.
I then started looking for the cause of the jerkiness. Initial thoughts were to change the decoder, but that didn't work because the model is extremely (and unnecessarily) tight on space, meaning that only certain decoders would fit. OK fair enough. The motor in this loco appears to be very good, so I decided to stay with it and the decoder. It was at this point that I discovered that the rotation of the wheels was binding at one point (when hand operated) and it wasn't because of my horn guides. So I started dismantling the model. And it was at this point that I really began to realise what a hell-hole this model is for dismantling. When you try to dismantle something and bits won't come off because they have been designed as a one way fit, one can no longer relate the problem to my ability are care in dismantling it. Things are inaccessible, footplates need bending to get them off over the motor because there are clips under it to stop it going the other way, wires which are too short to release things, non-use of plugs, so any wires that do break have to be resoldered...so long as they are accessible. Drive gears which can't be removed unless you bend the chassis facias (which can't be removed as they are hot-melt fitted). Wires running in channels which directly line up with the slot such that when you refit the cab, it damages the wires. Screws in the top of the hood against the cab - what about the other end ? Nothing to hold it down, so it doesn't sit straight above the buffers and can appear twisted.

I finally found the cause of the jerking - a malformed gear with uneven tooth spacing. I approached Ultrascale for a replacement, but at £50 startup costs and an 8 month delivery, I respectfully declined. But one thing Ultrascale did point out is that the gear in question is fixed to another gear which the motor worm drives, yet that gear is not properly manufactured with 'helical' teeth to match the motor worm thread.

I'm afraid I have to say that this model is as bad as I indicate. The more you work on it, the more you observe that it is riddled with cheap-skate short cuts, very poor design and some poor manufacture. In 40+ years of modelling, I've never seen a loco this bad although one or two lag some way behind.

Don't get me wrong, I actually like the loco. The body looks superb. It's a shame the mechanism doesn't match the appearance!

It should have a solid block chassis, same as Bach and Hornby do it, but it hasn't because it is using the chassis construction method used by Heljan on their Diesel bogies...and it doesn't work on this type of loco because all the weight ends up above the footplate (no gap between bogies to under-sling weight), contributing to a top heavy model and a 'waddle' and leaving no space for decoders or speakers.

Hi Graham,
Thanks for your detailed reply, I appreciate it.
I see! You clearly went much deeper into the model than I did - fair enough!
I am beginning to suspect that my replacement of the wheels and jackshaft by the Ultrascale kit, made a vast improvement to the model. It certainly ran well for me and as you say, the body is lovely.
I too was working on improving the buffer beam for appearance sake but then I sold it when I disposed of my P4 stuff.

I do agree with you that so many British outline models have cheap shortcuts built in and it all ends up with disappointing models that need work and/or cash being spent on them before they perform as intend.
Cheers,
John E.