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What locomotive would you most like to see in OO scale?

18637 Views 115 Replies 32 Participants Last post by  kristopher1805
Just for fun I thought I'd ask this question since I've been thinking about this recently. What is the best locomotive that you can't find in OO scale?
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Yes, a Caledonian 4-4-0 would make a very appealing proposition but, as there were quite a few varieties, the question is, which one? A Drummond 4-4-0 would be nice but, as they were pretty much all gone by the early LMS days, they probably wouldn't generate enough sales, with the same being true of the earliest of the McIntosh 4-4-0s. The later McIntosh engines are more likely to sell well as models, having a wider application, but there is the problem of the tenders - they were built with bogie tenders but the LMS withdrew the bogie tenders and replaced them with a variety of six wheelers from withdrawn engines. To my mind if there were to be a model of a Caledonian 4-4-0, it would have to be a Pickersgill. There were two classes, 113 and 72, almost indistinguishable and they all survived from Caledonian days right into British Railways (with one accident victim excepted, almost to the end of steam) almost unaltered other than a few changes to boiler mountings. Possible liveries, Caledonian light blue and dark blue (they appeared in both), LMS red, lined black, plain black and every variation on British Railways black, lined and unlined.
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Yes, kristopher1805, the Rivers would be a good choice, impressive engines with a remarkable story behind them. And, even although they did not last into BR days, there is a choice of possible liveries: HR green (the first two were finished thus although would have only travelled from the makers to the HR in that guise) Caley blue (they received the darker shade first but on repainting were finished in light blue), LMS red (14757 was the first engine painted red at St Rollox) and LMS lined black and unlined black (with a bewildering variety of styles of lettering and numbers). In addition to which, 14760 was running witha bogie tender towards the end of its days (presumably off an HR Castle).

As far as Scottish 4-6-0s go though, the most versatile, numerous and long lived of them, and consequently the one most likely to sell in significant numbers as a model, would be the Pickersgill 60 class.
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Which is undoubtedly why there have been so few models of Scottish locomotives produced as RTR. The 60 class were the most numerous of Caley 4-6-0s, but only six were built by the Caledonian, with a further 20 built by the LMS in 1925-26. I seem to recall reading something about some of the LMS batch working over ex-LNWR metals when they were near new, but I could be wrong. One of them was however tested between Penrith and Shap, so they ventured south of the Border at least once (as an aside, some Caley 0-4-4Ts did work in the London area after the grouping, but I don't recall the details - some of these 0-4-4Ts were built by the LMS as well, so maybe the London ones were part of that batch).

The main reason I suggested the 60 class as a possibility was due to its longevity compared to other Caley 4-6-0s, with the last survivor not being withdrawn until 1953. Personally I would be slightly annoyed if an RTR 60 class were to be announced, as I have just started construction of a DJH 60 class kit. The two Caley 4-6-0 classes I would like to see as RTR but I am certain we never will see, are the 956 class (magnificent looking but sadly disappointing in performance and, as a result, very short lived) and the 191 class (to my mind, the most attractive 4-6-0 produced by any railway in Britain, but built solely for use on the Oban line and not that long lived either).

Realistically though, I think that the only Caley engine meriting production as an RTR model would be the Pickersgill 4-4-0, a class that was still around in the early 1960s, by which time they could be found almost everywhere in Scotland, especially on ex-Caledonian and ex-Highland lines.
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Wolseley (perhaps an 18/85?)
15/60 actually. It sits in my garage alongside a modern Skoda Octavia station wagon.
15/60 must be an early one, I think 16/60 came out quite soon after introduction, my dad had a Wolseley 12 as his first car before a Jowett Javelin......
The 15/60 was replaced by the 16/60 in the UK in 1961. In Australia, however, the 15/60 continued in production (yes, they were actually made here and not imported) until March of 1962, when it was replaced by the Mark I 24/80, which was basically a 15/60 with two extra cylinders, having an Australian only six cylinder version of the engine used in the 15/60. My 15/60 is one of the last ones built, probably February of 1962 (surviving factory records only show the serial numbers of the first car built in 1962, not the last but my car does have the highest chassis number known to the Wolseley Car Club of NSW). The Mark II 24/80 of 1964 was restyled along the lines of the 16/60.

Interesting you should mention the Jowett Javelin, as my father had one in the early 1960s, and it was the first car I drove, although not on a public road, as I wasn't old enough at the time. It was replaced with an Austin Freeway (an Australian six cylinder version of the A60).

And, as for suggested RTR models, how about a Highland Railway Jones' Goods?
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So Jones goods, well as one still exists and it has an interesting livery it would be sure to sell, personally I doubt this would have lasted in numbers to make my bit of model Buckinghamshire 1962, that said I may buy one just for fun.
Well, a couple of years later, 103 did make at least one appearance in England, in 1964, for the filming of "Those Magnificent Men and Their Flying Machines" which was released in 1965. The filming of its scene didn't take place in Buckinghamshire, although it was not that far away - in Bedfordshire. Perhaps you could include it and only have to bend the rules a little. I found the details of the location used in Wikipedia:
The location where Sir Percy's aircraft lands on a train is the now closed line from Bedford to Hitchin. The tunnel into which they fly is the Old Warden Tunnel near the village of the same name in Bedfordshire; the tunnel had only recently been closed, and in the panning shot through the railway cutting, the cooling towers of the now-demolished Goldington power station can be seen. The locomotive is former Highland Railway Jones Goods Class No 103.
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You can also see the influence of Gresley in the Caledonian 956 class with its conjugated valve gear (Gresley and Pickersgill knew eachother, both being prominent members of the wartime Association of Railway Locomotive Engineers Standard Locomotive Committee). The cylinder dimensions, boiler pressure and grate area of the 956 class were more or less the same as Gresley's 2-6-0s and both used three cylinder propulsion with a derived valve gear for the inside cylinder.

The 956 class were majestic looking locomotives but, unfortunately, the performance of the GNR engines was not replicated.......
[FICTION ALERT] Then again, let's imagine that it had been a real success, capable of matching Gresley's K3 and Raven's B16 designs (either of which could have been used as the standard heavy mixed traffic class for the new LNER). Then they would have been deprecated really rapidly by the Derby-Horwich axis: we're not having something better than any of our efforts left standing... [/FICTION ALERT]
Not possibly as far faetched a thought as all that. At the time of the Grouping, there was a Pickersgill design for a massive 2-6-0 that was never built. Hughes was quite impressed with it. The outside cylinders of it would have fouled the loading gauge of most of the English constituents of the LMS, so he redesigned it by modifying and inclining the valve gear (he also gave it a Belpaire firebox in place of Pickersgill's round topped design) and the result? The well known LMS "Crab".

Fiction aside, the Rivers should have had a chance at becoming an LMS standard design, but apparently were not even considered, although the LMS did build another batch of Pickersgill's 60 class 4-6-0s.
That just had me thinking that a Whitelegg Baltic Tank would be nice, but I can't imagine there being any likelihood of a Glasgow & South Western Railway locomotive ever being available as RTR.
With all those persons scrambling around to get the best career position in the new LMS group, the staff of the smaller companies were always going to be elbowed aside by the heavy mobs down South...
Added to which, Caledonian officialdom never seemed to warm to these engines (probably a reluctance to accept that a "foreign" railway could do something better than St Rollox) and the staffing of the new Northern Division of the LMS was heavily weighted in favour of the Caledonian, almost to the exclusion of the Highland and the GSWR, with William Pickersgill as Mechanical Engineer and John Barr as Superintendent of Motive Power. In Caledonian days, going back to when McIntosh was in charge of locomotive, Barr was the Locomotive Running Superintendent, and was described by OS Nock as the "power behind the throne". It was Barr who agitated for the inclusion of Caledonian designs in the locomotive trials and for the building of more Caledonian locomotives. His efforts bore fruit in the shape of the construction of Pickersgill's 60 class 4-6-0 and of Pickersgill's development of McIntosh's 439 class 0-4-4T under the auspices of the LMS.
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Oh dear. And if they're coming from a different supplier, let's hope they are interchangeable.
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