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QUOTE (34030 Watersmeet @ 23 Mar 2018, 10:33) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>pre grouping, LSWR T3 (or indeed any of the Adams 4-4-0s) LNWR lady of the Lake single, Midland spinner 4-2-2. If Rapido can do a Stirling single then these should be possible as well!
I could write a list a yard long of extremely attractive pre-group designs worthy of a model, including the lovely MR outside frame 0-6-0 that Richard identifies. It is pleasing to see that the RTR manufacturers are picking up on this, and there are subjects aplenty to keep a dozen manufacturers busy as long as there are customers willing to punt the money...

On which subject and specific to the Stirling single: the volume to be produced is relatively small, perhaps smaller than the NRM hoped for? There was insufficient demand from the pre-orders to justify tooling the old Sturrock tender with which this loco was for so long paired, so only the regular Stirling pattern tender with which the locos operated when in regular service is to be produced. That indicates to me that the volume case for many of these lovely subjects may be 'slender'.

I hope that the demand holds up enough that we see a good many more oldies. Another particularly deserving one in the NRM is the very lovely SECR D class 4-4-0. Elegance in abundance, and a very successful design that resulted in a series of successful 4-4-0s for the SECR and SR, and that went on in service practically to the end of steam. I was a little surprised - and pleased as an enthusiast for all things Doncaster GNR - that the NRM went with the single ahead of this loco TBH.
Here we are in 2021 and I'm hoping for a re run of this lovely loco. I missed out on the recent run so maybe I'll have time to save up if they come round again.
 

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A good chance you haven't missed out on this model, it's by Dapol for both Locomotion (NRM) and Rails of Sheffield, there are likely to be further issues. Locomotion specifically have been offering repeats of most of their locomotive commissions starting with the first, the prototype Deltic; so if they see there is continuing demand for this model in its SECR finery (I am guessing this might be the one you would like) worth calling them...
 

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Yes, kristopher1805, the Rivers would be a good choice, impressive engines with a remarkable story behind them. And, even although they did not last into BR days, there is a choice of possible liveries: HR green (the first two were finished thus although would have only travelled from the makers to the HR in that guise) Caley blue (they received the darker shade first but on repainting were finished in light blue), LMS red (14757 was the first engine painted red at St Rollox) and LMS lined black and unlined black (with a bewildering variety of styles of lettering and numbers). In addition to which, 14760 was running witha bogie tender towards the end of its days (presumably off an HR Castle).

As far as Scottish 4-6-0s go though, the most versatile, numerous and long lived of them, and consequently the one most likely to sell in significant numbers as a model, would be the Pickersgill 60 class.
 

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...As far as Scottish 4-6-0s go though, the most versatile, numerous and long lived of them, and consequently the one most likely to sell in significant numbers as a model, would be the Pickersgill 60 class.
I would guess that a model manufacturer would consider the pre-group LMS constituent's 4-6-0 prospects from an all- LMS perspective, where the 400 odd LNWR 4-6-0s of the 19" and PoW classes easily outnumber all the others combined. With early extinctions for all of them under BR, which are going to garner the most sales from the pre-grouping and LMS period interest?

(From an eye-candy perspective, any of the Scottish 4-6-0's over the Crewed and Horwich 4-6-0 classes: perhaps that weights the likely choice differently?)
 

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Which is undoubtedly why there have been so few models of Scottish locomotives produced as RTR. The 60 class were the most numerous of Caley 4-6-0s, but only six were built by the Caledonian, with a further 20 built by the LMS in 1925-26. I seem to recall reading something about some of the LMS batch working over ex-LNWR metals when they were near new, but I could be wrong. One of them was however tested between Penrith and Shap, so they ventured south of the Border at least once (as an aside, some Caley 0-4-4Ts did work in the London area after the grouping, but I don't recall the details - some of these 0-4-4Ts were built by the LMS as well, so maybe the London ones were part of that batch).

The main reason I suggested the 60 class as a possibility was due to its longevity compared to other Caley 4-6-0s, with the last survivor not being withdrawn until 1953. Personally I would be slightly annoyed if an RTR 60 class were to be announced, as I have just started construction of a DJH 60 class kit. The two Caley 4-6-0 classes I would like to see as RTR but I am certain we never will see, are the 956 class (magnificent looking but sadly disappointing in performance and, as a result, very short lived) and the 191 class (to my mind, the most attractive 4-6-0 produced by any railway in Britain, but built solely for use on the Oban line and not that long lived either).

Realistically though, I think that the only Caley engine meriting production as an RTR model would be the Pickersgill 4-4-0, a class that was still around in the early 1960s, by which time they could be found almost everywhere in Scotland, especially on ex-Caledonian and ex-Highland lines.
 

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In my opinion we are now in the 'zone of opportunity' for models of pre-group traction, because most of the significant grouping and later loco designs are available. If that's accepted, then the next question is how long the demand holds up against the inevitably steadily rising prices (a move away from dependence on China may ameliorate the latter, Roco are trying Vietnam). I am optimistic about the demand side for at least another decade: there are still plenty of folks yet to start drawing final salary pensions who were young when model railway was a major hobby and might just think of model railway, round 2. So all being well some of these retired folk looking for an interest that can be pursued when the weather outside is frightful, will maintain the grey pound spend on model railway purchases out beyond 2030.

Then there's hope that the two 'current standard' models of Scottish 0-6-0 locos (alright, the CR specimen isn't here just yet!) will push that particular door open, and the typically good looking products of St Rollox and Cowlairs will get more attention from manufacturers. I'd love a D34 even though it doesn't belong in the KX area, to run alongside the equally inappropriate J36 Hornby supplied, and the similar charms of a CR 4-4-0 would likely appeal to many. And both companies have attractive and long lived tank engines to offer, mentioned up thread. We must BELIEVE...
 

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The other change is that small batch manufacture is much easier these days so maybe back in 1960 Triang would release a model each year roughly, it was a major effort, sort of looked like a steamer but that was what there was, now we can knock out small volume highly accurate models costing reasonable numbers of beer tokens, so there is less impediment to making models of limited appeal, the trick is getting it right and this makes the market more interesting

So back to my ideas, Wolseley (perhaps an 18/85?) likes the totally useless but attractive 191 class, interesting that his ideas changed as soon as the Rivers turned up and later Caley locos looked like Rivers just they were naff, the 956 might have done OK but the Oban locos were really rubbish, I love the "wee contraption 'o' my ain" said Pickersgill when referring to the valve gear on the 956 but then perhaps there is enough volume to make a few sales and a few new manufacturers looking for a nice option no one else is looking at. (the 3 different Adams 4-4-2tanks case in point0

So I'll stick to the Rivers, A2/1, Q4, A5, N5, rebuilt Crosti 9F, 7F 0-8-0, etc
 

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A good chance you haven't missed out on this model, it's by Dapol for both Locomotion (NRM) and Rails of Sheffield, there are likely to be further issues. Locomotion specifically have been offering repeats of most of their locomotive commissions starting with the first, the prototype Deltic; so if they see there is continuing demand for this model in its SECR finery (I am guessing this might be the one you would like) worth calling them...
I'll keep my fingers crossed and make sure I'm extra nice and helpful to the fiscal management. Meanwhile, I'll send an email to Dapol and hope that plenty of others do too.
 

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15/60 must be an early one, I think 16/60 came out quite soon after introduction, my dad had a Wolseley 12 as his first car before a Jowett Javelin then moved on to a series of Standard Vanguards, he had finished working at Gorton by then as he saw nationalisation as rationalisation.
 

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15/60 must be an early one, I think 16/60 came out quite soon after introduction, my dad had a Wolseley 12 as his first car before a Jowett Javelin......
The 15/60 was replaced by the 16/60 in the UK in 1961. In Australia, however, the 15/60 continued in production (yes, they were actually made here and not imported) until March of 1962, when it was replaced by the Mark I 24/80, which was basically a 15/60 with two extra cylinders, having an Australian only six cylinder version of the engine used in the 15/60. My 15/60 is one of the last ones built, probably February of 1962 (surviving factory records only show the serial numbers of the first car built in 1962, not the last but my car does have the highest chassis number known to the Wolseley Car Club of NSW). The Mark II 24/80 of 1964 was restyled along the lines of the 16/60.

Interesting you should mention the Jowett Javelin, as my father had one in the early 1960s, and it was the first car I drove, although not on a public road, as I wasn't old enough at the time. It was replaced with an Austin Freeway (an Australian six cylinder version of the A60).

And, as for suggested RTR models, how about a Highland Railway Jones' Goods?
 

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I'll keep my fingers crossed and make sure I'm extra nice and helpful to the fiscal management...
Then again,if it is the SECR no 737 you want, then look here:
Maximum effort on the good conduct toward the holder of the purse strings?

... as for suggested RTR models, how about a Highland Railway Jones' Goods?
Got to be in with a chance, while there must be plenty that remember it while operating in preservation. (What it really needs is a group in Scotland to build the next member of the class. Strikes me as a practical prospect, because it's the right power class for much current preservation operation.)
 

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My first car I drove was a Jowett Javelin a 1952 de luxe model with leather seats, walnut dash and picnic trays, I drove it whilst 16 in a big depot then on 17th birthday drove it over to Oldham to see grandfather, father had got very keen on these was in the Jowett club and rebuilt a few of them.
Thanks for the Wolseley history in Australia I have never heard before thanks for that.
So Jones goods, well as one still exists and it has an interesting livery it would be sure to sell, personally I doubt this would have lasted in numbers to make my bit of model Buckinghamshire 1962, that said I may buy one just for fun.

I have wondered about a pre grouping set of stock so I can reset the clock from 1962 to 1922, that might be fun but I would need a lot of stock, in the meantime I do have a pair of GCR Directors I'll try posting a pic. Mons meets Butler Henderson
 

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...V2 ...of course that is another model rather overdue...
Never mind all the excitement over the Brush type 4, it's the long overdue Bachmann V2 I too am most interested in from this manufacturer's announced products list. This has been extensively previewed, and was fully tooled for production at least a year ago, and looks very good. It has been a long wait for an accurate model of a V2 to roar along with 50+ wagons of fully fitted freight.
 

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So Jones goods, well as one still exists and it has an interesting livery it would be sure to sell, personally I doubt this would have lasted in numbers to make my bit of model Buckinghamshire 1962, that said I may buy one just for fun.
Well, a couple of years later, 103 did make at least one appearance in England, in 1964, for the filming of "Those Magnificent Men and Their Flying Machines" which was released in 1965. The filming of its scene didn't take place in Buckinghamshire, although it was not that far away - in Bedfordshire. Perhaps you could include it and only have to bend the rules a little. I found the details of the location used in Wikipedia:
The location where Sir Percy's aircraft lands on a train is the now closed line from Bedford to Hitchin. The tunnel into which they fly is the Old Warden Tunnel near the village of the same name in Bedfordshire; the tunnel had only recently been closed, and in the panning shot through the railway cutting, the cooling towers of the now-demolished Goldington power station can be seen. The locomotive is former Highland Railway Jones Goods Class No 103.
 

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... Buckinghamshire, although it was not that far away - in Bedfordshire...
Don't be fooled by the map. There's about eleven centuries of separation between these two, Beds in the Danelaw, Bucks in Mercia. Not for nothing do we remark on travelling North up the A1 that 'The North' begins at Biggleswade...
 

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I got hold of a Model trains 2021 copy recently and in it it declares that the J39 replacement project by Bachmann has been terminated so much for that one, perhaps a good one for the new entrants as it is bound to have some appeal, anyway no point in waiting any longer for Bachmann on this one.
 

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I got hold of a Model trains 2021 copy recently and in it it declares that the J39 replacement project by Bachmann has been terminated ...
I suspect that may be a lesson learned from renewing the J72, which I reckoned a mistake on two counts:
Near 50 years worth of decent looking s/h J72 models at a low price, suppressing new sales;
Several LNER 0-6-0T yet to see a RTR OO model, the J67/69 group the obvious opportunity.

It's the easiest job in the world to shuck the drive out of a Bachmann J11, and stuff it into the J39 body: externally improving the latter to whatever standard is required, while about the task of cutting the small amount of extra interior clearance the substitute mechanism requires. (The J11 wheelbase and wheel diameter is within an inch of that of the J39 in reality, you need 'micrometer vision' to spot the deviation on a 4mm model; were you so gifted your choice would be a kit mechanism built to P4 standards.) I am so lazy, the brake and sanding gear is left as on the J11, it's underframe detail, and 'representatively present' is 95% of the way there for my taste. YMMV.
 

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Going back a bit ref 'Gresley was right' - well first off father worked on these things and his knuckles said Thompson was right and conjugated valve gear was not at all good, see the work done by SO Ell when they got a V2 on the Swindon test plant, lets be honest it was Thompson who rebuilt Great Northern - er rather thoroughly and then rebuilt the P2's into A2/2's that got him a bad press, his work on B16 and D15 was excellent the B1 was was probably a masterpeice etc.

Right so what would I like to see, the most likely given we have an streamline P2 on the way would be a rebuilt Crosti as I used to see these coming down the Colne valley from Standedge heading for Liversedge oil depot and there is loads of scope for this one, they lasted nearly to the end of steam.

Of course the Rivers and some nice one offs such as the high running plate Caprotti black 5 and the Stephensons valve gear Black 5 would be interesting

See what you think?
 
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