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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Thinking about the Dapol Class 73 N gauge loco reminded me that Hornby now have a Class 73 OO gauge loco in their range as a result of the Lima aquisition. And the Lima Class 73 is one of Lima's better models so what chance it being offered at some point in the Hornby range with a new 5 pole motor and super detailing?


And which other Lima locos should Hornby reintroduce as part of their UK range?


Assuming of course that they give a makeover to any Limo loco reintroduced.

Happy modelling
Gary
 

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It would also seem that Hornby will have acquired some O scale moulds from Lima in British & Continental outline, will they be reissuing any of these. Not into O myself but an interesting aside. Personally I would like to see the GWR Railcar from the Lima range and the Mark 3 Brake for HSTs'
 

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My vote(s) would go to what I view as the better Lima models such as the 73 and the Class 101 Met-Cam unit, also the class 117/121 DMUs and perhaps the GWR railcars. Not much point in stuff like the 33/26/27 coming out again with Heljan promising them (eventually). Shame about the 31 really, I reckon the body could be as good as the Hornby loco - it certainly looks right from most angles.
 

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The class 73 is an obvious choice, especially with all the names and liveries available. An upgraded GWR railcar would go down well with GWR and early BR devotees.

I too think there might be interest in O gauge, but if I remember correctly, the Lima offerings were limited to a Fowler 4F steam and Class 33 diesel, plus a MK1 coach in different liveries.

Some of the Lima continental HO offerings will go down well around the World, providing quality is improved and the prices remains right.

It looks like there will be some German DB Rheingold coach sets in two liveries releasd in the very near future.

Can't wait for the reissue of the Rivarossi Big Boy, due Q1 2006. What a candidate for live steam! I don't model American, but a live steam Big Boy could make me an instant convert.
 

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QUOTE (bobknee @ 19 Aug 2005, 14:52)...
Can't wait for the reissue of the Rivarossi Big Boy, due Q1 2006. What a candidate for live steam! I don't model American, but a live steam Big Boy could make me an instant convert.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that Hornby has it's eyes on the USA with regard to Live Steam. Continental Europe too. Which one first?

How about a Live Steam SAR Class GMA/M Garratt 4-8-2 + 2-8-4... wishfull thinking perhaps?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Given that Germany is the largest model railway market in continental Europe there would be some logic in developing a live steam model for the German market. Lima is possibly a stronger brand than Hornby in Germany so it could well be a Lima Live Steam model that is developed. Current HO gauge German Live Steam models cost €3000 (£2000) and are not mass produced and generally built to order. I am not sure if there is a Lima model in the range that would be a suitable live steam candidate for Europe (Germany?)

Happy modelling
Gary
 

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There was a German BR61 loco. This was the Henschel Wegmann Train. See notes below. This was modelled by Rivarossi (now Hornby's as well).

In the mid 1930's competition threatened the steam locomotive: Fast, diesel-powered cars dominated high-quality long-distance travel. Consequently the steam engine industry produced modern high-performance locomotives that reached speeds of up to 200 km/h or 124 mph. For traffic between Berlin and Dresden the German State Railroad procured a whole train. It was pulled by the class 61. From this class Henschel produced two prototypes with totally different designs. He 61 001 had a 2'C2' wheel arrangement and a two-cylinder drive gear. The State Railroad provided the 61 002, which was completed in 1939 a trailing axle and an additional cylinder. Naturally, both locomotives had streamlined bodies. While other streamlined locomotives hauled conventional trains, the German State Railroad especially commissioned streamlined cars for express service between Berlin and Dresden. They were built by Wegmann; like Henschel a company based in Kassel. Interestingly enough there was no first class car. To compensate, first class comfort dominated in 2nd class, according to the press. The appellation "salon car" was totally justified. The first and last cars both had a rounded end with large panorama windows. Travelers in the last car were thus offered an excellent view of and around the route the train was putting behind itself. When the 1936 summer timetable went into effect the German State Railroad started express service between Prussia and Saxony. Two pairs of trains were underway daily. The fastest train completed the journey in one hour and 40 minutes. At this speed it surpassed the previous record holder by 28 minutes. In the afternoon however, the turnaround time at the terminus between the D 54 and D 57 was tightly metered out at only 32 minutes. The German State Railroad also had to consider that replacement locomotives of other classes did not reach the top speed of the 61. If the 61 fell out to scheduled or non-scheduled service, the Dresden 01 or 03 took over the rake of cars. Instead of 175 km/h or 109 mph, however it reached only 130 to 140 km/h or 81 to 87 mph. As a consequence the German State Railroad loosened up the timetable slightly. Express service ended when the war started. From that point the cars served the military, the locomotives spent most of their time in inactivity. At the end of the war the 61 001 remained in the British zone. By 1951 it was relegated as splint class. In 1952 it was taken out of service, and it was dismantled in 1957. The 61 002 became part of the State Railroad of the Soviet zone. It hauled passenger and express trains from Dresden. After it was taken out of service in 1958; main frame, front wheels and coupled wheels remained intact in the high-speed trial train, 18201.

The Lima model was not of the class 61. It was a smaller loco and I think it was silver. It was streamlined like the 61 and pulled matching coaches, which I think were commuter double deckers. It also had a double barrelled name, part of which was something like Lubel or Lubitel.

The Rivarossi models are better quality than Lima's, so if one is a candidate for German live steam it could be a P10. I think they also did a 01.

Rivarossi also did models of Italian and French prototypes as well as German. There is lots of scope with Rivarossi. Their CIWL coaches were superb.
 

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The Rivarossi 61 on ebay is a special edition in photographic grey - superb model, comes in wooden box.

Rivarossi also did the loco and matching coaches in purple and cream in a set. Now in Hornby hands I suggest.

Marklin are about to introduce the same set in 3 rail. It will also probably come out in Trix 2 rail. The prices are very high though.
 

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It was nagging me so much I just had to find out about Lima's German streamlined tank that has been the subject of previous postings in this thread.

It was a Class 60 tank 2-4-2 built in 1936 for the then private Lubeck-Buchener Eisenbahn. The Lima model came with two double decker coaches (Doppelstock-Wendezugen). It was in their Golden Series I think.

Whilst it looked similar in shape to the Henschal Wegmann Class 61 tank locos, it was considerably smaller.

The first Henschal Wegmann loco was 61001 built in 1934 and was a 4-6-2T, the second was 61002 and was a 4-6-6T and built in 1939.

Now I can stop fretting
 

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Doug - now you've got me fretting again!

I will be as interested as you to get to the bottom of this and I will go away and see what I can dig up.

Bob
 

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Further update on Rivarossi/Lima models of German DR Classes 60 & 61 streamlined tanks.

Below is a verbatum copy/paste of a translated search engine page. What "bowl" is I'm not sure.

The Lima Class 60 is noted, as are the Rivarossi variations of the Class 61. In addition, there are Lima Class 61 versions.

I was unaware of the Lima 61 that Doug identified and I can't say I've ever actually seen one, although they must exist, possibly in loco/coach sets as well as individual locos.

I would like any info on the Lima Class 61 as it would be nice to compare the Lima & Rivarossi offerings and whether the Lima one was 61001 0r 61002. The prototypes themselves were somewhat different.

Vehicles of the German National Railroad
available companies. Catalog locomotive number remark
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198?-199? LIMA 60,001 black current bowl
1989-1991 RIVA [ 0339 ] 61,001 beige/violet current bowl
1993-1994 LIMA [ 149790 ] 61,001 beige/violet current bowl
1994 RIVA 1330 61 001 light-grey current bowl
1998 LIMA 208260 61 001 light-grey current bowl
199? LIMA 208460 61 001 dark grey current bowl
1995 LIMA 208526 61 001 black current bowl
 

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Back on the original subject I think Hornby should produce any / all of the Lima 37s and 47s.
For the 37s best part of 100 running numbers to choose from and for the 47s probably 120+ running numbers to choose from.
Even with todays Heljans, Bachmann and ViTrains offerings, still some of the nicest locos running.
 

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QUOTE (tgh263 @ 18 Apr 2008, 17:27) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Back on the original subject I think Hornby should produce any / all of the Lima 37s and 47s.

Well the 37 has gravitated into the railroad range and the 47 is already being used - doing all livery/number/type variations would, I suspect, not be cost effective.

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Question is what price will rail road 37 be pegged at. I have loads of old Hornby and Lima 37 47 but at the moment being able to pick up Heljan and Bachmann 47`s new for £45 and 37`s for the same whats the choice. I have thought of having a split from box Pullman 47 to see what it runs like to put new life into a beloved 47 484.
 

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I think the 37 would be a great model to release for hornby, the older model is rubbish, I have thought about getting a few of the ex-set pullman 47s cos at the moment I can get some for £28 each, less than the cost of spares, and replace the ageing motors in my Lima fleet.

I just don't get why Hornby are releasing some of the same numbers that Lima did at its end, or that have been released by others recently:

37414 - ViTrains last year.
43100+101 - 2 of Limas last 43s and the last twin pack.
59201 - Limas second last 59 (203 was the last).
59005 - the last Yeoman livery release by Lima and with the right body.
59101 - the last 59/1 by Lima.
73101 - one of Limas last 73s.
67005 - Amongst Limas last 67s (and lets face it 67006 has the same royal livery).

Don't get me wrong I want Hornby to release them but a bit of variety please. I mean in the last few years we have had umpteen versions of 37410/411/114 by various companies.

I think a lot of ex-set ex-Lima models will appear in the next few years, even from the HST twin packs.
 

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QUOTE (hairyhandedfool @ 29 Apr 2008, 09:45) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I think the 37 would be a great model to release for hornby, the older model is rubbish..........

Don't get me wrong I want Hornby to release them but a bit of variety please. I mean in the last few years we have had umpteen versions of 37410/411/114 by various companies.

I think a lot of ex-set ex-Lima models will appear in the next few years, even from the HST twin packs.

The 37, as I stated earlier has gravitated into the railroad range, I am fairly certain that the old Triang one is now only available in the Thomas range.

Surely one of the problems with Lima and poosibly part of the reason for the company's downfall was a proliferation of different numbers of the same model - the market can only take so much.

As for the Lima HST power cars I believe they are going to the Railroad range when the new retooled versions come out later this year.

I think if we are honest a large part of the old Lima range, 27, 31, 33, 50 etc is better aimed at the Railroad market as vastly improved models ar now available from other manufactyurers.

Regards
 

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QUOTE (BRITHO @ 29 Apr 2008, 12:33) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>....Surely one of the problems with Lima and poosibly part of the reason for the company's downfall was a proliferation of different numbers of the same model - the market can only take so much....

With out a doubt that helped but the point I was making was that 37410 and 37411, for example, has been produced by both Vitrains and Bachmann in the last year and there was little to chose between them in price. I realise ViTrains are mostly putting out 37/4s but there were 30 of them converted, and with Hornby showing the 37 as another 37/4 in the railroad range, there now doesn't appear to be many variations of numbers by three companies.
 
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