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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Guys,

I'm looking for some working N Gauge GWR semaphore type signals (home & away) and was wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction for some.

I've looked at the P & D Marsh catalogue but they do not seem to be 'working'. I would like to connect them up to operate with points via Seep PM1 motors.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Expat.
 

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QUOTE (Expat @ 12 Aug 2008, 19:21) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi Guys,

I'm looking for some working N Gauge GWR semaphore type signals (home & away) and was wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction for some.

I've looked at the P & D Marsh catalogue but they do not seem to be 'working'. I would like to connect them up to operate with points via Seep PM1 motors.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Expat.

Hi Expat,

After looking around a bit on the net i found this link ..........

http://www.gwr.org.uk/

most of the RTR projects look like 4mm/7mm but there are some kits for 'N' unfortunatley no signals, go to the layouts page there and click on the 'kingswear' in particular this shows working signals on there, a mail to the site may prove helpful to confirm the manufacturer.

Good luck.
 

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Paul Hamilton aka &quot;Lancashire Fusilier&quot;
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I wouldn't consider getting Seeps or solenoid motors to drive 4mm scale signals never mind 2 mm unless a clever system of balance weights wes used to dampen the effects of the sudden throw.

Veismann make a damped solenoid sold be MSE for signal operation. MSE do all the parts really needed for GWR 2mm signals and will be in robust metal and soldered construction. Other than that you are stuck with poor quality Ratio products.

PM me about construction.
 

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The MSE Veismann solenoid is good but very pricey. A slow-motion motor such as Fulgerex, Lemenco or Tortoise is a bit cheaper and will give you a smoother motion than a point solenoid.

There are also ways of using radio-control servo mechanisms - but while the mechanisms are cheap the driving electronics are not, although they can reproduce the typical 'bounce' of a semaphore signal.

Have a look at the Signalling sub-forum of the 'Track, Layouts and Scenery' part of this Forum - there are several postings on signal operation there.

Regards,
John Webb
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks Guys.

Just to clear up a bit of a misunderstanding, it is not my intention to use the Seep motors to actually power the signals, merely to sychronise the signal & point operations via Richard Johnsons wonderful Masterswitches. - (There you go - a plug for you Richard)

I've had a look at the MSE web site and they seem to be what I'm looking for but would be interested to hear what the cost per signal works out at, including motorisation.

The reason I ask is that while the Tomix signals are expensive they certainly look the dogs whatsits and are complete with a working light behind the spectacle lenses. I suspect that by the time you add up all the parts plus the time taken to make it all up and fit a motor there might not be that much in it.

Would be grateful for any comments on this aspect.

Cheers,

Expat.
 

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Complete kits are available from MSE for particular signals; I bought two to have some experience of what was needed. Now I've seen the kits and got one signal nearing completion, I know I can in future buy the detailed parts from MSE, like the signal arms, cranks, ladders etc., and build the signal post etc from standard 'off the shelf' brass tube. 'Lancashire Fusilier' has posted his efforts on signal building in the Signalling sub-forum.

I hope shortly to add a photo or two of my jig for signal building, but having only just gone broadband I am still sorting out how I do it!

Regards,
John Webb
 

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Paul Hamilton aka &quot;Lancashire Fusilier&quot;
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Ok, I looked deeper into the MSE kit. There is no "kit" per se for 2mm scale so it is components that you need. I have compiled a small list here of what you would need:

TUBULAR / TIMBER POST STYLE - Lower Quadrant
1) SN14/15 - 8 - 10 arms (distant, home and siding arms included) GBP4.00 each fret
2) 3/64" brass tube - K&S, 3 lengths of 10" probably around 3 GBP
3) 1.0mm brass rod - K&S, 3 lengths of 10" probably around 3 GBP
4) T130 MSE's tube (for the arm spindle bearing) GBP 2.25 for 12"
5) OR replace 2, 3 & 4 with SN30/SN17 cast posts (but you will need to fashion a finial for it suitable for GWR - turn a little bit of the 1mm rod in a drill) GBP3.00 each for cast post
7) SCN6 Lamp (I can't see it on the website but it is listed on the instruction sheet for SN15)
8) or replace with an LED like I normally do. Blob of super glue/milliput around a 0.8mm surface mount LED would be the go
9) SN9/3 4 ladders for GBP4.00
10) 26 swg nickle silver wire to use as an axle for the balance lever - GBP2.00?
11) 0.3mm brass wire for handrails and operating wire etc - GBP2.00?

It appears that you could get several signals here for approximately GBP22.00 (7 signals at around 3GBP each)

Good value but will take some time to build. My 4mm tubular post was around 8 hours start to finish.

The DCC Concepts MasterSwitch Plus would run your turnout (solenoid) and has further outputs for 2 tortoise machines all on the one board.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
QUOTE (Lancashire Fusilier @ 14 Aug 2008, 04:48) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>It appears that you could get several signals here for approximately GBP22.00 (7 signals at around 3GBP each)

Good value but will take some time to build. My 4mm tubular post was around 8 hours start to finish.

Thanks for such a detailed reply LF.

So with a Tortoise or similar motor, plus upgrading from Masterswitch V2 to Masterswitch Plus that would take the total cost to around £18 - £20 per signal which would value my time at about £1.00 per hour when compared with the cost of the Tomix.

Hmmmm. Need to give that some thought.

Many thanks again,

Expat.
 

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Just another modeller
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QUOTE (Expat @ 14 Aug 2008, 11:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Thanks for such a detailed reply LF.

So with a Tortoise or similar motor, plus upgrading from Masterswitch V2 to Masterswitch Plus that would take the total cost to around £18 - £20 per signal which would value my time at about £1.00 per hour when compared with the cost of the Tomix.

Hmmmm. Need to give that some thought.

Many thanks again,

Expat.

***In most cases you could use the spare terminals on the DPDT switches I sent to you, instead of changing many MS to PLUS.
Also...no promises, but send me a signal model that is acurate + scale drawings of the signals you want and wait patiently.... I may be able to help you there.....

Off list for questions re this please.

Richard
 

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Paul Hamilton aka &quot;Lancashire Fusilier&quot;
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QUOTE (Expat @ 14 Aug 2008, 11:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Thanks for such a detailed reply LF.
Absolute pleasure. Got me thinking I need to try and build one just for kicks. What would someone pay for a custom built 2mm scale operating semaphore?

QUOTE (Expat @ 14 Aug 2008, 11:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>So with a Tortoise or similar motor, plus upgrading from Masterswitch V2 to Masterswitch Plus that would take the total cost to around £18 - £20 per signal which would value my time at about £1.00 per hour when compared with the cost of the Tomix.

As per Richards reply the upgrade is not necessary. I didn't realise you hadn't got the MSPlus already. I will be connecting up a MSPlus shortly to a couple of Tortoises for a point and signal combination for demonstartion and testing purposes and will post the shots on the forum.

With regards to attempting to rationalise your time in construction versus purchase of a ready to run item, the comparison is fundamentally flawed (one off versus mass production) and once you start trying to put a value in a monetary sense on your modelling time you may as well stop medelling and spend that time day trading stocks on the internet


From the brief photos of the Tomix unit I would suggest that the MSE parts will make a finer looking signal than the Tomix and as to automation, neither Tortoise or other commercial product is absolutely necessary. I am having good success with an experimenter's kit of memory wire (from Richard of course and he has seen it in action) which results in a silent operating mechanism for less than $5 a pop powered by an old cell phone charger I had laying around (800mA @ 5V) based on amortising the experimenter's kit by the number of actuators possible to make; circa 10 or so.

Dunno if this is of any help thoug to you
 

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QUOTE (Lancashire Fusilier @ 15 Aug 2008, 05:39) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>you may as well stop modelling and spend that time day trading stocks on the internet
HI again LF

The 'attempt at rationalisation', as you put it, was very much tongue in cheek and not to be taken seriously. If I actually thought that way I wouldn't have built a 1/5th scale model of my layout which, in itself, has taken hundreds of hours. My main concern is whether my eye-sight and digital dexterity is actually up to building N Gauge signals. I'm having enough problems with putting D & G Couplers together. Oh well, nothing ventured, as they say, so I will probably give it a go.

QUOTE I am having good success with an experimenter's kit of memory wire (from Richard of course and he has seen it in action)

Now that looks interesting and I will give Richard a buzz. If it looks as if it might be beyond my capabilities though I will probably go for some form of manual operation for the time being.

Incidentally I have been reading Iain Rice's book, 'Railway Modelling the Realistic Way' and he mentions a ready to install Ratio product called 'Remote Control for signals'. I've looked for this on the internet but haven't been able to track it down yet so will probably have to give Ratio themselves a call. Have you, by any chance, come across it ??

Thanks again for your input,

Expat.
 

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Paul Hamilton aka &quot;Lancashire Fusilier&quot;
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QUOTE (Expat @ 15 Aug 2008, 14:06) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Incidentally I have been reading Iain Rice's book, 'Railway Modelling the Realistic Way' and he mentions a ready to install Ratio product called 'Remote Control for signals'. I've looked for this on the internet but haven't been able to track it down yet so will probably have to give Ratio themselves a call. Have you, by any chance, come across it ??

Yes. It's rubbish quite simply. Won't stand up to the rigours of use. Better of with a robust wire in tube for signal control if not going electric. Something like Gem produce or even Modratec (not their whole lever frame just the cranks and tubes etc)

The mem wire is a breeze to be honest. Not a lot of science to it. Must get some snaps of what I have done on here.
 

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The Ratio remote control kit is actually almost prototypical in that it uses a thread to connect the signal to a lever, using a spring to return the signal to the horizontal. It's OK over short distances, but if you have several baseboards to cross.....

Regards,
John Webb
 
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