[Gary]

Any thoughts on this?

Think point motors and other solenoid driven devices.

And then there are capacitors.

And locomotive power.

Should modules be able to operate both DC and DCC?

Should motors and other devices have a seperate wiring circuit to keep it simple?

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[dwb]

>Should motors and other devices have a seperate wiring circuit to keep it simple?
Yes - it will be easier to trouble shoot.

>Think point motors and other solenoid driven devices.
It may be an idea to have either a load limit per module or a requirement that people know how much current the accessory devices take on their module. I have just bought a Kadee electric uncoupler and was shocked to learn that they require a 3 amp (yes THREE amp) power supply.

David

 

[Makemineadouble]

Diversion:
let me know how you get on with the Kadee uncoupler.
I've obviously used the between the rail jobies and the non electric under the track one which worked well but with light weight wagons they tender to attract them like bees to a honey pot.

 

[Makemineadouble]

Electrics and modules.
The modules I've seen all use conventional stud and contact or push to make turnout control normally with a mimic panel let into the operating side of the panel. This works well. You then need a transformer, and CPU per module or every few modules.
The problem with DCC is we don't have a standard for the communications bus between manufacturers. However even as a Digitrax user I would have to accept that Xbus/Lenz is more common in Europe and make provision accordingly if thats what the majority of the club/group/ want. Similarly if the majority want DC control then that would have to be the control medium of choice. DCC is better suited to modular layouts then DC IMHO.

 

[Gary]

QUOTE DCC is better suited to modular layouts then DC IMHO.

Yes and no. To have to set up the addresses for the decoders on a freshly assembled modular layout would take time every time. DC permits immediate plug and power up and play. For those who are strictly creating modules for home use then DCC is not an issue and may well simplify things. For those who plan on meeting as a group and having a group module assembly then it could be.

Layouts with trains that go around and around continuously do draw bigger audiences. Do you require DCC for this?

DCC is ideal for shunting type layouts or layouts with plenty of sidings and operations however is modular format suited to this type of working?

The answer probably is yes IF the shunting area is kept on one module and to the rear of the mainline running along the front. And this "independent" isolated section could have its own seperate DCC control keeping everybody happy.

Thats exactly what Warley MRC are doing on their latest layout. DC at the front where there is to be constant running and DCC on a seperate independent line at the rear where there is more stop go and shunting.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[pedromorgan]

apart from the main line track wiring. there dont need to be any standards at all.
dont forget that many modules are used as layouts in their own right when not being used as part of a modular system.
it would be wrong to impose standards on someones layout.
Whats the worst thing that can happen? we need a 13 amp socket for each module. - big deal!

If you build a DC layout anyone can use it.
If you go DCC you exclude alot of people (including me!)

Peter

 

[Gary]

Thats my thinking exactly pedro.

Have a standard for the main line electrics and allow the module owner to have the freedom to do what they want with the backscene area. It may mean that section has to be seperately isolated however it permits freedom of expression. If the module owner happens to like DCC then this allows it to happen. And the DCC chipped locos can still run on the DC mainline.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Makemineadouble]

QUOTE If you go DCC you exclude a lot of people (including me!)

Good point, and if the modules were to be used for a layout at home, the bus could be simply re-adapted for DCC use there.

To me the modular concept is also important, leading the nomadic lifestyle isn't suited to perminent layouts bolted to the wall.

 

[Ravenser]

I notice the Pretoria club's rules say "a bus wiring system must be used". I assume this is in the context of DC analogue modules

Maybe this is the way forward - for DC analogue, you build it with sectional switching on one bus. . If on any occasion , someone wants to operate a series of modules under DCC , just turn on all the section switches.

The key thing is that the DC wiring must be man enough to cope with the higher current flows used by DCC - ie you need a main bus that can handle 5 amps

There was an article on wiring in the current BRM which seemed to be suggesting - for DC analogue wiring - things that looked very like DCC wiring practice - eg wiring dropper wires to a big heavy duty bus to minimise voltage drop on a big layout

I'm arguing for a basic wiring spec that allows DC but an easy switch to DCC if a group of people at a meet/show have a DCC system and want to use it to run the modules

It seems to me that it is DC control which is going to have the bigger issues to be solved. How exactly can you isolate the goods yard on a wayside station from the main running lines? How do you shunt the yard with the pick up goods.

Do you have an operator to each module (what might be called the "block section" concept)?

Or do you drive some modules off adjacent modules? If so , what do the connectors look like and how complex would they get??

 

[Gary]

I'll post a copy of a message I have posted in the other thread as it is relevant. The reality of exhibiting has suddenly sunk in! :-

QUOTE I don't know what experience folk have of DCC however DC is a proven and reliable technology for module use.

When putting a series of modules together you can never be quite sure what will happen when you turn on the DCC Console. If you are attending an exhibition you have to have a very quick set up with no time to resolve issues. Having had the experiances with DCC at Warley MRC and having been to a pre show briefing last night lets make it clear that exhibitors do not get much time to erect layouts and get things tested. For the exhibition manager time is money.

Unless you are going to have a pre exhibition trial to make sure it all works without any shorts etc then you have to consider the risks of operating DCC.

If you have a failure and a non running exhibit then exhibitors will not ask you back again. Remember we are not a single location club who can test and check everything before a dissassembly and reassembly at an exhibition.

The advocates of DCC across module boundaries need to think about this seriously. If ultimately I'm going to be the one liasing with exhibition managers then on the basis of my own experiances shared with others my vote is for DC on the mainline throughout. We could tolerate a local failure with DCC but not on the mainline!

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gwent rail]

It seems that we have two threads discussing the same thing here Gary.
Have a word with your good buddy Doug and get them combined please.
All this trying to follow a subject in two locations is driving me mad.

 

[Gary]

The aim is that one is discussing the physical aspects and one the electrical aspects. A physical standard and an electrical standard presumably can be entirely divorced from one another.

Is this right or wrong?

However I would agree that there is some electrical discussion in the other thread with the physical bias.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gwent rail]

Thanks Gary, I appreciate your comments re physical and electrical considerations needing to be separate.

Perhaps now that it's appeared in text, we all will try to post in the correct thread.

Oh well, guess I'll continue reading both and be happy