Joined
·
6,385 Posts
Ok folks time to talk about the experiences with Roco/Flieschmann Z21.
Initial effort[
I bought the unit from Osbornes of Bideford for £300 which seemed a good price for what you get, as a leaving present from Oman I had been given a Samsung tablet 10.1 that I really had little use for as I am still a macbook user primarily.
Setup 9/10
In order to get going I made a temporary track and this let me fit decoders and then register the loco, this was easy enough to do, there is an option to use either the main track or the programme track but I did not see much use with this option and 'programmed on main' more of this later.
Instruction Manual 3/10
This is the usual effort part propaganda and part self back slapping, it gave the very basic information and left me feeling frustrated when I had issues to resolve, nothing unusual but as is often the case in order to have 97 languages the section you want (in English) is cut down to the minimum.
Connecting the setup 8/10
Very easy, the feed wires to the track is simple just 2 screw clamps for modest size wire, another 2 are needed to feed the programme track, when building the railway I have used Peco droppers from the rail joiners and made a strip connector block under the layout ready to run on to the next set of droppers.
Registering Locos 7/10
This was also very easy, simply put loco on track, add the details which are limited to identity, max speed in kph, CV address and away it went, you can add a photo which is taken either from a library or with a photo from the tablet, this is sized and then posted to the relevant page line for that loco, without a pic you get a white German DB diesel.
Graphics 9/10
This is quite good, because it is a tablet it is quite pictorial and the loco photos are ones you take yourself so that part is up to you, the train op page however features two controls one either side each with two options but there is an issue here as below, the quality of the graphics is good and there must be lots of development scope.
Menus 6/19
This is where it starts to get more involved, the system has a main page with a number of sections, top left is the loco library but this has now been changed to include other stock, you register the loco etc. here then have to come back to the main screen in the middle of which is a play button, this takes you to the operating screen. There are other items some yet to explore but the other initial interest is the CV programme page, this allows the loco to be identified and can be done on either the main track or a programme track, clearly if there are lots of locos on the main track you may end up changing all of them.
Loco Programming 5/10
I mark this down because of a glitch, I found that all the locos have a default address of 3, what it does not tell you (as a noob) is that this is CV1 and here values that can be awarded are dependent upon the decoder capability but generally up to 128, I'll research this in a while and as I have at least 119 locos to go on the system then this is a restriction I could do without.
I found it impossible to code CV1 and the programme came up with error messages, after talking to Graham at ZTC and Osbornes it was apparent that the Android version was not the same as the Apple version, I searched the Z21 website and found a download upgrade issued on 1st October and promptly installed this and the problem went away, also the CV programming track now had an additional feature that the apple version already had.
It still tells me that the programme has not suceeded but it works anyway so another minor glitch there, this means that it is necessary to go back to the registration and reset this information as well, cannot see why we need such multiplication but that is what you get.
Operational Control 8/10
Once this lot is sorted out the system operates nicely and is smooth, slow speed control very good it has such features as telling you the scale speed and this seems to vary a little bit between decoders but not enough to spoil things generally very good.
Where it can get confusing though is on three counts;
1. The loco list on the settings gives the info, name of the loco and address so perhaps we have 3F 43747 as a name but this will have 47 in front on the list on CV1 is set to that or 3 if that is the default address, when you are on the operating page the loco list becomes a series of small photos along the bottom but here as one Black 5 looks like the other 6 I have, and the 4F looks like a 3F etc then finding the correct one is a bit of a pain, out of nowhere came an alternative display on the left control but I have no idea how to call this up every time this was much bigger and included the name and CV1 address. Sadly this is not easy to get up when needed.
2. The next issue is that the controller has two control stations and each has two options, you would think this would allow 4 locos to be worked and easy to access but no, you bring up a loco and it goes to both, it is not easy to find a loco which might be running and you want to stop but the controller is reading another one so you have to find this from the tiny pics at the bottom, fixing a crisis is thus unduly long winded, a shame as this must be easy to change.
3. If you are running say 45156 then take it off it may be that somewhere in the background the controller is still sending it a signal to operate and when it returns to the track or the power restored to the section off it goes and then its a scramble to find the loco and reset its operation.
Basically if you could have a screen that showed all the locos that are running with name, CV1 address, photo and speed bar you could probably get 12 on a page and that would be enough for most people, 4 is not enough and then it obviously has a glitch anyway.
Shorts 10/10
If the box detects a short it goes red on the light (normally blue, green if registering) and makes a buzzing sound, this can easily be reset on the tablet and is effective.
Overall an 8+ and it could easily be a 10, I have not explored the point decoder yet but I have a Roco 10775 costs £60+ quid and this will operate 8 points so my approximately 100 points will cost over £700 plus other accessories so a £1,000 bill beckons, anyway that is the scope there.
Overall though I am impressed but these glitches need sorting and the problem of the operating page being made easier to call up locos, its nice if you have multicoloured locos but a fleet of similar dirty weathered steamers makes it too unclear.
Sorry if my descriptions are not very technical I am still a dcc noob however
Initial effort[
I bought the unit from Osbornes of Bideford for £300 which seemed a good price for what you get, as a leaving present from Oman I had been given a Samsung tablet 10.1 that I really had little use for as I am still a macbook user primarily.
Setup 9/10
In order to get going I made a temporary track and this let me fit decoders and then register the loco, this was easy enough to do, there is an option to use either the main track or the programme track but I did not see much use with this option and 'programmed on main' more of this later.
Instruction Manual 3/10
This is the usual effort part propaganda and part self back slapping, it gave the very basic information and left me feeling frustrated when I had issues to resolve, nothing unusual but as is often the case in order to have 97 languages the section you want (in English) is cut down to the minimum.
Connecting the setup 8/10
Very easy, the feed wires to the track is simple just 2 screw clamps for modest size wire, another 2 are needed to feed the programme track, when building the railway I have used Peco droppers from the rail joiners and made a strip connector block under the layout ready to run on to the next set of droppers.
Registering Locos 7/10
This was also very easy, simply put loco on track, add the details which are limited to identity, max speed in kph, CV address and away it went, you can add a photo which is taken either from a library or with a photo from the tablet, this is sized and then posted to the relevant page line for that loco, without a pic you get a white German DB diesel.
Graphics 9/10
This is quite good, because it is a tablet it is quite pictorial and the loco photos are ones you take yourself so that part is up to you, the train op page however features two controls one either side each with two options but there is an issue here as below, the quality of the graphics is good and there must be lots of development scope.
Menus 6/19
This is where it starts to get more involved, the system has a main page with a number of sections, top left is the loco library but this has now been changed to include other stock, you register the loco etc. here then have to come back to the main screen in the middle of which is a play button, this takes you to the operating screen. There are other items some yet to explore but the other initial interest is the CV programme page, this allows the loco to be identified and can be done on either the main track or a programme track, clearly if there are lots of locos on the main track you may end up changing all of them.
Loco Programming 5/10
I mark this down because of a glitch, I found that all the locos have a default address of 3, what it does not tell you (as a noob) is that this is CV1 and here values that can be awarded are dependent upon the decoder capability but generally up to 128, I'll research this in a while and as I have at least 119 locos to go on the system then this is a restriction I could do without.
I found it impossible to code CV1 and the programme came up with error messages, after talking to Graham at ZTC and Osbornes it was apparent that the Android version was not the same as the Apple version, I searched the Z21 website and found a download upgrade issued on 1st October and promptly installed this and the problem went away, also the CV programming track now had an additional feature that the apple version already had.
It still tells me that the programme has not suceeded but it works anyway so another minor glitch there, this means that it is necessary to go back to the registration and reset this information as well, cannot see why we need such multiplication but that is what you get.
Operational Control 8/10
Once this lot is sorted out the system operates nicely and is smooth, slow speed control very good it has such features as telling you the scale speed and this seems to vary a little bit between decoders but not enough to spoil things generally very good.
Where it can get confusing though is on three counts;
1. The loco list on the settings gives the info, name of the loco and address so perhaps we have 3F 43747 as a name but this will have 47 in front on the list on CV1 is set to that or 3 if that is the default address, when you are on the operating page the loco list becomes a series of small photos along the bottom but here as one Black 5 looks like the other 6 I have, and the 4F looks like a 3F etc then finding the correct one is a bit of a pain, out of nowhere came an alternative display on the left control but I have no idea how to call this up every time this was much bigger and included the name and CV1 address. Sadly this is not easy to get up when needed.
2. The next issue is that the controller has two control stations and each has two options, you would think this would allow 4 locos to be worked and easy to access but no, you bring up a loco and it goes to both, it is not easy to find a loco which might be running and you want to stop but the controller is reading another one so you have to find this from the tiny pics at the bottom, fixing a crisis is thus unduly long winded, a shame as this must be easy to change.
3. If you are running say 45156 then take it off it may be that somewhere in the background the controller is still sending it a signal to operate and when it returns to the track or the power restored to the section off it goes and then its a scramble to find the loco and reset its operation.
Basically if you could have a screen that showed all the locos that are running with name, CV1 address, photo and speed bar you could probably get 12 on a page and that would be enough for most people, 4 is not enough and then it obviously has a glitch anyway.
Shorts 10/10
If the box detects a short it goes red on the light (normally blue, green if registering) and makes a buzzing sound, this can easily be reset on the tablet and is effective.
Overall an 8+ and it could easily be a 10, I have not explored the point decoder yet but I have a Roco 10775 costs £60+ quid and this will operate 8 points so my approximately 100 points will cost over £700 plus other accessories so a £1,000 bill beckons, anyway that is the scope there.
Overall though I am impressed but these glitches need sorting and the problem of the operating page being made easier to call up locos, its nice if you have multicoloured locos but a fleet of similar dirty weathered steamers makes it too unclear.
Sorry if my descriptions are not very technical I am still a dcc noob however
. It simply makes sense to use the 4 digit addressing based on cabside numbers.
