[Kickstart]

QUOTE (steve.cefn @ 1 Apr 2010, 17:40) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>adding to a PC wouldhave been no different than adding a printer ect, as most printers connected to most computers

Unfortunatly this wasn't really the case when Zero 1 was pretty new. Standards were way too lax (or non existant), with all the small computer makers largely making it up as they went along.

QUOTE (steve.cefn @ 1 Apr 2010, 17:40) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>maybe developing it 2 yrs later and it would have been adifferent story and Hornby would have had a world seller

Seems like it was first developed (even if not production ready) in 1978. Suspect if it were to still be in with a chance it would need to have been microprocessor controlled and not sure that would have been finacially viable for the market Hornby were aiming at until getting on for a decade.

All the best

Keith

 

[steve.cefn]

Hi Dave
thanks for the post, I think everyone is missing the point here I have a large amount of zero 1 as said in my original post, the system goes to phase 3 which is a box that goes on top of the master which iluminates LED's numberd to match the points accesories, there is an LED read out which also gives the number to the corresponding LED on the layout board, hard to explain with seeing it, I have been running the system with no problems what so ever granted on a rolling road with taped conections not the idea set up but it still keeps working. my original post was asking if anyone knew how far the system went I already know you were able to connect to a pc through an interface I just wanted to know how and what other items would have been available or anything that had been writen. there is noway it could be compared to modern DCC and have no idea why people are trying to do this, it would be like comparing a candle to a microwave oven, and indeed if the zero 1 at any point becomes unreliable then I will revert back to my H&M 4000 system, untill then I am experimenting in nostalgia, I would like to see this system work as it was meant to, not go out and replaice all f my system with hundreds of pounds of equiptment that I will probably never get the full use of. where as i'm sure the DCC system is the dogs dangly bits it has nothing to do with what I'm trying to achieve. if I thought it was going to get this much off subject I would never have asked for help in the first place.
Regards
Steve

 

[steve.cefn]

QUOTE Unfortunatly this wasn't really the case when Zero 1 was pretty new. Standards were way too lax (or non existant), with all the small computer makers largely making it up as they went along.

Keith best let this one go, I had an olivettie dot matrix office printer connected to a 464 and it worked perfectly well as would most printers, ad of course later development would have made a differenence as it does with everthing in the computer world, remember even google is not perfect and makes mistakes. sorry I ever posted asking for help on this I just thought a model railway forum was the best place to ask about model railways, seems I was wrong I won't be asking for help again
regards to all and sorry if it has offended anyone but your not helping newcommers to model railways
regards
Steve

 

[Kickstart]

Hi

Sorry if you have taken offence in anything I have written. I am in no way having a go at you, just interested in the subject, and also interested in computers having been beating my head against them for too many years.

I suspect if I was in your situation with a large pile of Zero 1 equipment I would do the same as you and play. Not sure I would want to try installing any of the "decoders" in anything special (at least not until I was very sure I was happy with the equipment). But it is part of the fun, whether than is with models, or anything else that interests you.

All the best

Keith

 

[Brian Considine]

Steve,

I don't see any reason why you not continue with your Zero1. You seem to have a good amount of equipment & it seems that it does what you want it to do. I'm a very enthusiastic DCC user but would be the first to admit that it does not suit everyone.

Personally I like to see some of the older technologies in use, such as Zero1, Hornby Dublo & even clockwork.

There still seems to be a fair amount of Zero1 kit about & judging by the prices we get for the odd used kit that comes our way it's still in demand.

Please don't be put off, just because the information you sought was not forthcoming & you recieved negaive comment on what you are doing.

 

[steve.cefn]

Hi Brian
thanks for the comment, its a little off putting when you ask for info on somthing and end up getting lessons in sothing that is nothing to do with what you;ve asked about, I suppose I didn't realy expect 2 much info to comeback as I keep drawing a blank as to h0w far the system went I have it wired upto phase 3 which is the micromimic system LED's and displays ect but it goes a stage further or even 2 stages further, there is an i/opost in the top of the box and a socket for a light pen, that together with an article I read from magazine of the time think it was called "your model railway" it didn't take much thought toworkout that it was being designed to connect to a pc, My original question was as to if Hornby actually went that far with it and are the parts available, also there is a socket on the back which says rail drive I was wondering what that was for, these are the only questions I asked, nothing about which PC or what was the best system, I run Tri-ang and Tri-ang hornby I do have a few modern locos but not many, the Zero 1 is connected tohorby's rolling road which needs a good clean now the loco module is only taped in, the point motors areonly plugged into the module not to the point, the micro mimic is wired up and working and it hasn't missed a beat for days the only thing i've done is change the direction and the enertia it just keeps going I would just like to take it as far as it was intended to go but am missing the relevent information. Seems the only information Ican get is second hand frompeoplewhohave heard rumours or read articles but have never used the system them selves and as we all know the British are very good at bad publicity, it would be nice to hear frompeople whohave used the system and found it as reliable as I have.
It sounds as if you run a model railway shop and do get second hand Zero 1 items, have you come across the micromimic system or even better do you have any in stock I am missing the LED display panel not a great loss as its only a honnycomed plastic box with holes also somespare phase 3 modules would be usefull.
oonce again thanks for the comment,
reagrds Steve

 

[Kickstart]

Hi

Not sure if you have seen it before but the Model Electronics Railway Group list a fair few articles on Zero 1.

All the best

Keith

 

[Brian Considine]

Hi again Steve,

I'm certain too that there is a fair amount of info' on MERG about Zero1.

I've just tried a Google using <Zero 1> & <Hornby> & brought up load of pages.

 

[steve.cefn]

hi
yes i've seen the MREG pages but you have to be a member to view the pages and from what I can see they might be the only way to go,
i;ve tried google and gone through the pages but it all seems to be about the basic system i.e master slaves and points, i have the 1980 catalouge that fives quite a bit of info and am waiting for the 81 to arrive then it will be a case of follow it till they stop mentioing it, again its all about the basic set up nothing about phase 3 or 4
cheers Steve

 

[Alan D]

Hey Steve

Never be put off doing what you want to do. Everything is achievable with good will and determination.

Never give up, Never Surrender (Quote from Galaxy Quest)

Cheers

Alan

 

[Richard Johnson]

*** Hi Steve

As I also said earlier, its a nice idea to go down the nostalgia route and do it as you are - and while its not my own preference that doesn't matter at all as its your hobby and your choice, so all power to you for doing it!! This hobby is all about making choices that appeal or fit resources, and you are clearly happy on both counts so enjoy it!

I can't help much more than I already have with Zero 1 issues but perhaps the following will at least point you in a good direction.

Forgetting all other issues relating to standards, variety of competition etc at that time.... (they are all specualtion and no longer relevant anyway) ...one of the things that did kill off Zero one was actually the ongoing reliability problems with the "decoders"... so this will no doubt happen to yours from time to time. They were simple devices and very vulnerable to thigns like voltage spikes and shorts as were all similar products in the early days of "chips".

I suspect that you can help this a wee bit for just a few P using more modern knowledge.

Wire the layout using modern DCC principals - use a power "BUS" with droppers up to the rails as often as you can manage.

Also, add a voltage spike suppressor to the power bus. the parts will cost almost nothing and are available from anywhere with electronic parts like Maplin etrc.

Zero 1 is a wee but coarser than modern DCC so the filter/suppressor needs to be lightly stronger than DCC would need. Get a 80 to100 ohm 1/2 watt resistor and a 0.1microfarad ceramic capacitor and wire them together in series, then put the free end of the resistor to one bus wire and the free wire of the capacitor to the other rail. Do this at a couple of points around the layout only... each roughly equidistant from the controller so the layout is evenly covered so to speak. Neither of the parts nor their installation are polarity sensitive, and near enough position wise is OK too.

this is not a magic bullet fix but... it should help by helping to suppress the quite destructive voltage spikes which are created by momentary shorts and therefore give a wee bit of added protection to the loco "chips" . Zero 1 chip death will also be reduced a lot by good track maintenance and keeping accidents which create shorts to a minimum.

No need to stress about that too much as long as you are aware ahead of time of course, as unlike current micro sized components Zero one chips are a wee bit less complex and use real parts you can see . So - they are actually repairable as long as you keep researching them, are patient and develop a wee bit of soldering skill.

The key parts on the Zero 1 chips are easy to buy usually too. I would be VERY surrised if MERG or its members cannot supply a circuit digram for a Zero one chip in fact!

For that reason alone it'd be worth joining MERG where they do understand them inside out and can give good repair advice, including sourcing alternate parts for the harder to fix things like controller keypads which do also die regularly. You may even find a kind soul there who would either show you how or repair them for you - they really are nice guys.

When you join also sign up to their forum or E-group and then you can ask the "real experts" the odd Zero 1 question as needed - while much of the regular banter you see there will go right over most heads (including mine) simple requests are treated with respect and answered well.

Enjoy your new hobby!

kind regards

Richard

 

[Chinahand]

Just out of hypothetical interest. What would happen if you put a Zero 1 chipped loco onto a moden DCC wired layout ?

 

[Richard Johnson]

***smoke

Richard

 

[steve.cefn]

Hi All
yes I think smoke andlots of it not sure I'd like to try that one lol, but saying that was wondering about the sound chips that can be baught for modern locos if they would work I know the take thier power from the track and Zero 1 is 18v perminant live but if it was wired between the chip and the motor, mmmmmm maybe one for the future when pricescomedown a little. I lay in bed last night looking through some old RM magazines of the time, I found the phase 3 items in Jan 82 edition doesn't give much info but there is a picture showing how it all works ect, and was reading someof the articles and they were saying the biggest problem with reliability was poorly fitted chips in the locos mostly D.I.Y the patial cure for this is instead of using the push on clips was to solder the wires onto the motor this cured most of the running problems, the other big one was track clenliness and connections, cleaniiness has to be a big issue with any elictrical connection i'm sure its the same with modern DCC, the other one it connections, I'm lucky on this one as the Zero1 one will be used on the main layout which is at the design stage so the track will be solderd very carfully as I go along this will illiminate that one again not a magic bullet fix but it will all help, as for repairing Loco modules at the moment I have nearly 200 of these and other than about 40 they are all brand new so with whats still available on the likes of ebay and what I have here I don't think it will be a worry about burning them out, in the many large box's the items came in are a few circuit boards I will have alook at what these are, there are also high capacity discharge capcitors or somthing like that I would imagine this will be for points ect where you need a reliable discharge not sure they will be compatible with my system but won't know till I try.
M.R.E.G I willbe joining at some point, they do have many articles on Zero 1 also the link Richard gave me is a useful one so will be taking copy's of their articles so I can read at leasure.
many thanks to you all
regards
Steve

 

[Alan D]

Best of luck Mate! and make sure you keep us posted of your progress.

Cheers

Alan

 

[steve.cefn]

Hi Alan
thanks I will do, I just wish it was easier to explain what I'm trying to do, its all still on mt dining table still running sweet as a nut the point motors are working and the nubers are changing as they should do, I'll try and upload a pic at least that will give an idea.
cheers
Steve

 

[dwhite4dcc]

QUOTE (steve.cefn @ 1 Apr 2010, 19:42) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Unfortunatly this wasn't really the case when Zero 1 was pretty new. Standards were way too lax (or non existant), with all the small computer makers largely making it up as they went along.

Keith best let this one go, I had an olivettie dot matrix office printer connected to a 464 and it worked perfectly well as would most printers, ad of course later development would have made a differenence as it does with everthing in the computer world, remember even google is not perfect and makes mistakes. sorry I ever posted asking for help on this I just thought a model railway forum was the best place to ask about model railways, seems I was wrong I won't be asking for help again
regards to all and sorry if it has offended anyone but your not helping newcommers to model railways
regards
Steve

Early computers were a bit prone to use their own protocols and even disc operating systems. This was swept away on the tide of MS-DOS which, of course was originally written by IBM.

As to helping you, I think most of us have consigned Zero1 to history. The whole Hornby empire still seethes about the cost of the failure.

I think DCC is the MS-DOS of model railways and as a keen hobbyist who likes the very best of everything, I have invested in that. My only experience of Zero1 is second hand kit arriving at my local model railway dealer who also suffered at the hands of the Zero1 syndrome.

Although I do wonder at the British love of nostalgia and overlooking the reason why some of this love is misplaced, I would apologise to you if you felt I was unhelpful.

 

[klaatu]

QUOTE (dwhite4dcc @ 2 Apr 2010, 18:35) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>MS-DOS which, of course was originally written by IBM.It was originally written by a guy called Tim Paterson, working at Seattle Computer Products.

Steve

 

[dwb]

QUOTE It was originally written by a guy called Tim Paterson, working at Seattle Computer Products.

and licensed to IBM by William Gates III and the rest is history .... ?

David

 

[steve.cefn]

it seems even though asked to do so people still wish to discuss things that are totaly off the subject, it wasn't about computers be they MS Dos Basic or other, as for Zero 1 nobody disputes it had its faults the main one being cost at the time, so many have things to say about it but have actually never even seen one let alone used one, to this I say don't knock what you know nothing about and only information you have is second hand from your mates brothers uncles sisters friend who used to know someone who owned a model shop in outer somalia. its not a case of nostalgic love for somthing its a case of wanting information on a product which at the time was a real break through in model railways, without which DCC would probably not exsist,
I gracefully bow out and leave the thread to those who can't seepast the end of their nose and they can trade computer knowledge to their hearts content, which by the way is only partly right.
its all yours away you go