I have accuired a pair of Hornby/Dublo metal 2-arm signals (Home & Distant). They appear to be meant to be placed on the right-hand side of the track looking forward from the cab. Is this correct? I thought UK signals were on the left.
Shackfairy
Signalling in the UK was and still is predominantly on the left, except those regions such as the GWR who had right-hand drive locos where the signalling was on the right. Since the end of steam, the WR has converted to left positioned signals.
However, at the end of the day, the actual positioning comes down to driver sighting: signals are positioned where they can best be seen by a driver. In most instances, that is on the left, but sometimes it may be on the right and other times, elevation may be used as well.
Graham Plowman
However, at the end of the day, the actual positioning comes down to driver sighting: signals are positioned where they can best be seen by a driver. In most instances, that is on the left, but sometimes it may be on the right and other times, elevation may be used as well.
Graham Plowman
QUOTE (Graham Plowman @ 4 Aug 2011, 00:33) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Signalling in the UK was and still is predominantly on the left, except those regions such as the GWR who had right-hand drive locos where the signalling was on the right. Since the end of steam, the WR has converted to left positioned signals.
I'm sorry but, no, this is incorrect. Neither the GWR nor any other UK company or subsequet region signalled their lines "Normally on the right".
Once the BoT had Regulatory powers (from 1889) they recommended that all signals should be placed to the left side of the line (as the movement approached them) to which they applied or no further to the right than over the centre line of the line to which they applied.
This was a recommendation not a Requirement. Consequently companies were able to locate signals on the right of the line to which they applied when it was appropriate. The usual definition of "appropriate" was when sighting from 440yards made it necessary. I have seen many locations where this defintion would seem to have been stretched however.
Consequently the following is basically correct.
QUOTE (Graham Plowman @ 4 Aug 2011, 00:33) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>However, at the end of the day, the actual positioning comes down to driver sighting: signals are positioned where they can best be seen by a driver. In most instances, that is on the left, but sometimes it may be on the right and other times, elevation may be used as well.
Graham Plowman
It should be added, however, that "All signals" meant "all Running Signals". Non Running Signals tended to be placed where they were best seen or not in the way. (Running Signals are Stop Signals and Distants used in Block Working on Running Lines. Non Running Signals are all the rest).
A Stop Signal with - Slotted - Distant beneath it (such as the OP describes) would occur where the Stop Signal of one Signalbox fell within the braking distance of the first Stop Signal of the next Signalbox. The Signalboxes do not have to be Block Posts - although more usually one of them at least would be.
Where things are very close the Inner and Outer Distants of the Box In Advance might be slotted under the last two Stop Signals of the Box In Rear. For example the Outer Distant might be under the Home Signal while the Inner Distant was under the Starter of the Box In Rear). In that case the Inner Distant would be Slotted by the Starter but the Outer Distant would be Slotted by bothe the Starter and the Home. Where the Distants were on seperate levers the Outer Distant might also be slotted by the Inner Distant to ensure that it would only ever clear when everything ahead of it through the Signalbox to which it applied was showing clear.
Any... Most signals in the UK are on the left of the track to which they apply on all companies and subsequent Regions.
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I'm sorry but, no, this is incorrect. Neither the GWR nor any other UK company or subsequet region signalled their lines "Normally on the right".
Once the BoT had Regulatory powers (from 1889) they recommended that all signals should be placed to the left side of the line (as the movement approached them) to which they applied or no further to the right than over the centre line of the line to which they applied.
This was a recommendation not a Requirement. Consequently companies were able to locate signals on the right of the line to which they applied when it was appropriate. The usual definition of "appropriate" was when sighting from 440yards made it necessary. I have seen many locations where this defintion would seem to have been stretched however.
Consequently the following is basically correct.
QUOTE (Graham Plowman @ 4 Aug 2011, 00:33) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>However, at the end of the day, the actual positioning comes down to driver sighting: signals are positioned where they can best be seen by a driver. In most instances, that is on the left, but sometimes it may be on the right and other times, elevation may be used as well.
Graham Plowman
It should be added, however, that "All signals" meant "all Running Signals". Non Running Signals tended to be placed where they were best seen or not in the way. (Running Signals are Stop Signals and Distants used in Block Working on Running Lines. Non Running Signals are all the rest).
A Stop Signal with - Slotted - Distant beneath it (such as the OP describes) would occur where the Stop Signal of one Signalbox fell within the braking distance of the first Stop Signal of the next Signalbox. The Signalboxes do not have to be Block Posts - although more usually one of them at least would be.
Where things are very close the Inner and Outer Distants of the Box In Advance might be slotted under the last two Stop Signals of the Box In Rear. For example the Outer Distant might be under the Home Signal while the Inner Distant was under the Starter of the Box In Rear). In that case the Inner Distant would be Slotted by the Starter but the Outer Distant would be Slotted by bothe the Starter and the Home. Where the Distants were on seperate levers the Outer Distant might also be slotted by the Inner Distant to ensure that it would only ever clear when everything ahead of it through the Signalbox to which it applied was showing clear.
Any... Most signals in the UK are on the left of the track to which they apply on all companies and subsequent Regions.
Bear,
I think you are knit-picking!
I used the word 'normally', meaning 'predominantly but not always' and subsequently qualified it by stating the sighting situation. You have simply re-iterated what I wrote!
BTW: Adrian Vaughan's book on GWR signalling shows numerous pictures of GWR signals on the right. One must be careful to distinguish GWR and BR signals.
Graham Plowman
I think you are knit-picking!
I used the word 'normally', meaning 'predominantly but not always' and subsequently qualified it by stating the sighting situation. You have simply re-iterated what I wrote!
BTW: Adrian Vaughan's book on GWR signalling shows numerous pictures of GWR signals on the right. One must be careful to distinguish GWR and BR signals.
Graham Plowman
The 1941 accident at Norton Fitzwarren, on the GWR near Taunton, was caused by the driver thinking he was on the main line when he was in fact on the relief line. This was at least partly due to the main line signals being on the right and the relief line signals to the left.
The report comments that it is general practice for signals to be on the left but there are many exceptions, the reason in this case being that there was insufficient space between the main and relief lines to mount the signal posts (but presumably space between the two main lines). It recommends that consideration should be given to moving all signals to the left when signalling or track layouts are modified.
I think the conclusion can only be that there was no universal GWR policy to put signals to the right, since some of them here were clearly on the left. It is however probably true that the GWR had more signals to the right than other companies, because signals were positioned for best viewing from a locomotive with right hand drive - this was probably contributory to other accidents when left-hand-drive engines visited the GWR. Another reason may be the wider track spacings on former broad gauge routes, since a normal six-foot is not wide enough for a signal post.
Modern signals (running and shunting) are almost always on the left even if gantries are needed to put them there. This is especially so where there is potential for confusion between parallel tracks. Occasional right-hand signals may be found where this is the best alternative to make them visible and there is no such risk of confusion.
The report comments that it is general practice for signals to be on the left but there are many exceptions, the reason in this case being that there was insufficient space between the main and relief lines to mount the signal posts (but presumably space between the two main lines). It recommends that consideration should be given to moving all signals to the left when signalling or track layouts are modified.
I think the conclusion can only be that there was no universal GWR policy to put signals to the right, since some of them here were clearly on the left. It is however probably true that the GWR had more signals to the right than other companies, because signals were positioned for best viewing from a locomotive with right hand drive - this was probably contributory to other accidents when left-hand-drive engines visited the GWR. Another reason may be the wider track spacings on former broad gauge routes, since a normal six-foot is not wide enough for a signal post.
Modern signals (running and shunting) are almost always on the left even if gantries are needed to put them there. This is especially so where there is potential for confusion between parallel tracks. Occasional right-hand signals may be found where this is the best alternative to make them visible and there is no such risk of confusion.
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