This looks very interesting. I was really keen on trying out Zero 1 at the time but didn't have the means. Hornby abandoned the project after a few years, I'm sure someone else on the forum can give a brief history as I don't know it. But I'd like to see this work, purely for nostalgia.

As you have probably read we have now moved on to DCC which is a similar idea but much more advanced and not at all compatable with Zero 1. So if you were to create a layout with Zero 1 It would have to be a dedicated project. I still use DC at the moment so I am no expert on these systems. But as I say It would be nice to see one work.

As for getting information, I take it you have googled it and come up with not very much. I'm sure someone here can help.

I saw one briefly at an exhibition at the Town Hall In Paisley about 1984/5, can't remember exactly, but was fascinated that two trains could run on the same track at different speeds. Of course DCC has all the features Zero 1 had and more and is way more advanced. But I think it would be a shame to scrap it in favour of DCC without trying it out first, Just to see!

If you decide to go modern then there is still a market for Zero 1 on Ebay and you could fund a new system that way. Especially with the quantity of stuff you have.

Whatever you decide, keep us posted about your up and downs in your return to modelling and welcome to the forum.

Cheers

Alan

 

Hi Alan
thanks for the reply, with what the Zero 1 can do I doubt I would need to upgrade, from 1 base and 3 slave you can run 16 locos and 99 accesories i.e points, lights, signals ect and all from 2 wires it does away with having endless amounts of wiring an levers, all you add is a module and eachmodulr operates 4 items you can have 4 locos under direct cintrol while the rest run round at the preset speed you program in, I think it will do most of what the modern system does maybe a little bit cruder but it does it all the same, once its up and running properly I will try and post some pictures but could be a while as I can only do so much at a time then have to rest.
Steve

 

Hi Steve, whereabouts in north wales are you? A collegaue of mine has just got some zero one stuff, he may have some info. If he's not scarpered by the time I get into work in the morning I'll ask him if he has any manuals etc. Failing that a few model shops over this way may have some info.

Dave

 

Hi Dave
i'm in St Asaph well just outside, i've tried to find info on line and even contacted Hornby but of course they are chineese now so I doubt I will get a reply from them
Steve

 

Hi Steve, I'm just in Bodelwyddan myself and not long started my own layout. If you don't get any luck with your enquiries try the guys in Rhuddlan models. I don't know if you've already tried there yet; it's a fairly new shop but they have a few interesting bits and pieces and may be able to help you out in your search. Sorry I can't be of more immediate help but I will try and find something for you from my collegaue if at all possible.

Dave

 

chhers Dave
yes I know Mark in Rhuddlan though not managed to get in there for a few weeks but will as soon as I can
cheers
Steve

 

*** Is this of any help to you? It is the background to how Zero 1 controls things. Its old stuff but still valid if you really do want to extend the use of the Zero 1 system.

Its a nice idea to follow a nostalgia trail and all power to you if you do go that way... BUT. Before you get too far into it, do be aware that careful placement of the Zero 1 stuff you do have on Ebay or similar would yield an excellent return which would allow you to buy some really nice DCC gear - which really does work very much better and far more reliably than zero one in all areas.

(Hornbys use of thyristor control made their loco modules "OK until they randomly died". This and the fact that zero one parts are now impossible, make resale of good quality zero one an "in demand" thing!)

Either way, enjoy the hobby and best wishes for a steady recovery.

Richard

 

QUOTE (steve.cefn @ 1 Apr 2010, 07:19) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi Dave
i'm in St Asaph well just outside, i've tried to find info on line and even contacted Hornby but of course they are chineese now so I doubt I will get a reply from them
Steve

Steve, while Hornby is made in China, the main office is still in the UK & I would suspect that any reply would be the fact that they have no interest now in Zero 1 since current DCC is the in-thing.

 

See! Told you someone would know something. Richard is the man! Has all sorts of useful advice. That PDF is amazing.!

Cheers

Alan

 

Richard, that PDF is very interesting. it was remarkably sophisticated in its day.

Peter

 

Hi Richard
thanks for your reply, the link you gave me was very usefull. I think I have it sussed as far as the phase 3 but it went further there is the micromimic box which gives LED read out of what number point/accesory is being used together with a number read out on top of the box, that far I have got and is running very well, the next stage which was to be phase 4 from what I can see has a socket for a light pen which then started me thinking why it would need a light pen so spent most of the night running through it in my mind, another sleepless night lol then thinking about the socket on top of the box it all fell into place after reading through the paper work which is sketchy to say the least, the next development was to connect to a PC through the connection on top of the box and using the light pen to map out the layout on PC marking points ect then setting a route for each individual loco speed stopping times ect and saving it to memory the layout would then have been totaly automated through the PC it realy wouldhave been fenominal if they had carried on the development, the only socket I can't see what it would be for is one marked "RAIL DRIVE" and also if the connection to the PC would be through a module or a direct interface. Not sure i wouldgo for PC control as this negates the point of building a railway a everything is done for you, saying that it would give you a free hand to go and make tea or give the odd loco a push lol, getting information on the later development is what I am finding imposible, the missing LED's and box is not realy a problem as I was thinking of using white perspex with the layout lines with coach lining from a car, different colours for diferent routes, fit the LED's to the back of this then a piece of clear over the top then fitted to the control panel board I think it would look quite effective and clear to read. Or could even be mountedon the wall behind the layout this wouldbe great on an exhibition layout as the public could then see what is happening as the train approached points ect.
Well folks thats as far as I've got so far so its now the phase 4 I need help with, as in how far it went? were the parts actually made if not could the availablePC parts be adapted? was it connected through a module or direct interface? what is the raildrive socket for? and what time ismy appointment with the phsyciatrist.
regards to you all for now, hopeits clearer to you reading this as it was to me writing it if so will book you a place next to me with the brain doc
Cheers
Steve

 

Hi

Not sure if Zero 1 would have been intended for PC use. Purely based on when it came out and was available compared to what computer equipment was available. It was the late 1980s before even fairly basic XT home PCs became available at sensible money (from memory, Amstrad PC1512 was about £500 in 1987), and designing for any of the proprietary home computers prior to that would probably not have made financial sense.

Reading around it seems that the ZTC DCC controllers are / were compatible with Zero 1.

All the best

Keith

 

** It was never intended for computer use but it was easy enough to interface with one... in fact I have another PDF somewhere with the plans for buidling a home brewed computer to use with it! Actually given its very slow / low level communication rate an early commodore or similar computer would have managed just fine control wise, but any form of display other than running code would have been a real mission to set up nicely.

The PDF posted above gives enough to have a good start into understanding how to interface it with a modern computer though... its based on the same pretty simply 4 byte Texas Instruments T1000 processor that kick started much of the digital automation in many things, from my Daughters "Speak and Spell" educational toy to basic CNC control of machines.... and the first "cleverer calculators".

regards

Richard

 

Hi Keith
yes what we would consider a reasonable home computer by todays standards would have been out of the reach of most people but remember at that time there would have been the amstrad 6128 cpc462, the amega commodore the list is endless as to what was available we all get confused as to what is aimed at adults and what is infact a toy the Zero 1 would I imagine have fallen into the toy catagory as do train sets of today and its only ourselves that turn them into collectors items or railway layouts.
I would imagine the connection would have been through an old i/o port or an interface lead into the pc, which as we know today has been replaiced by USB ports which again wasn't heard of back in the 80s. so connection through a reasonably priced PC would have been possible
Steve

 

Hi

Afraid I used to have a CPC6128!

I was more pointing out that a standard style of PC was pretty much unaffordable (think my first PC was bought in 1988 and cost £725, although that was with a colour monitor and to put that in perspective as a trainee computer programmer that was 2 months take home pay), while the wide variety and total incompatibility of the various home computers would have made selling model railway hardware that would require one in particular would have had very limited chances of any sales, while the market to produce software and hardware for more than one of those home computers wouldn't have been affordable for something with such a limited market as Zero 1.

All the best

Keith

 

Hi all
as a follow on the Amstrad 464 at the time was available from about 1981 on I think and was tape driven which meant you could redecorate the house and have a night at the pub before a program loded, but within the opperating manual there was an article on use of a PC and even that one was capable of powering house hold electrics so the washing, machine, lights, heating ect could all be run through the computer, mind you it would have taken some planning to do as you would have to sort the heating 6 months in advance waiting for the program to load by which time it would be one of our gloriouse summers and wouldn't need the heating, many Commodore computers were used in buisness, there were all kinds of accesories available at the time even a light pen for the Amstrad which again I can't remember what it was used fo,r so usable PC's have been around a lot longer than we would think and of course as Riichard mentioned Texas Instruments were used in most cases as used in the Zero 1, the phase 4 was for future development and as we all know a few years after Zero 1 came out PC's were starting to take over every where and I think Hornby would have had enough forsight to see how things were going, , the cost of Zero 1 was the big prohibiting factor so having to add a PC to the cost would have priced it out of nearly everyones pocket where as today PC products by comparison are realtivley cheap and throw away, I am trying to findout if any of the phase 4 products were ever produced or even information on what they consisted of and how they worked, though not sure I would use them as that takes away the hands on features of railway modeling and it comes back to switching on and watching the trains go by.

regards
Steve

 

Hi

. Tape drives weren't that bad (well, the Commodore ones were, Spectrum was no worse than waiting for a modern Windows PC to boot up). Think the CPC464 came out in 1984 (Spectrum was 1982 I think , copyright notice was 1981 from memory). There was a kit available for the CPC to use the house ring main as a network with small adaptor plugs to control things. However the cost was high for what you could do.

Zero 1 appears to have been a very clever piece of kit for its time, just overtaken with the rise of cheap digital technology which could do far more for far less money.

I would suspect that the home computer market hadn't settled down enough until the early 1990s (ie, when the Amiga and ST were well established and had the market to themselves) for it to be economically viable to try and design and sell add ons that would hook up to them.

That said I am not really sure on when Zero 1 died off.

All the best

Keith

 

Hi Keith
I'm not sure anyone knows when it actually died its just a shame they never perseveerd with it, adding to a PC wouldhave been no different than adding a printer ect, as most printers connected to most computers, as you say cost would have been very prohibiting and as everyone says " to much to soon " maybe developing it 2 yrs later and it would have been adifferent story and Hornby would have had a world seller still be nice to get every component up andrunning as it should do and i'm so close to doing it just the last part is stoping me.
as a matter ofinterest ive had an old Tri-ang Britania chassis solid wheels with the original motor running on a rolling road with taped conections most of the day with just the casional change of direction and it hasn't missed a beat I keep changing the enertia
but it doesn't seem to mind this either, what will burn out first the motor or me, think I should let it cool a little.
regards
Steve

 

Candidly, I would follow Richard's advice and get shot. The Zero 1 system died because it was unreliable and cost Hornby a fortune to develop and launch and support with warranty claims and it became clear very early on, was going to be a commercial flop.

DCC with all its foibles and pitfalls is, even at a basic level, more reliable and better featured than Zero1.

All the time ZTC were supporting Zero1, then it was still a (barely) viable proposition. The demise of even that system must indicate that Zero1 is a blind alley.

Blind alleys lead to brick walls and we all know what happens when you start banging your head on them!!

 

QUOTE (steve.cefn @ 1 Apr 2010, 17:40) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>adding to a PC wouldhave been no different than adding a printer ect, as most printers connected to most computers

Unfortunatly this wasn't really the case when Zero 1 was pretty new. Standards were way too lax (or non existant), with all the small computer makers largely making it up as they went along.

QUOTE (steve.cefn @ 1 Apr 2010, 17:40) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>maybe developing it 2 yrs later and it would have been adifferent story and Hornby would have had a world seller

Seems like it was first developed (even if not production ready) in 1978. Suspect if it were to still be in with a chance it would need to have been microprocessor controlled and not sure that would have been finacially viable for the market Hornby were aiming at until getting on for a decade.

All the best

Keith

 

Hi Dave
thanks for the post, I think everyone is missing the point here I have a large amount of zero 1 as said in my original post, the system goes to phase 3 which is a box that goes on top of the master which iluminates LED's numberd to match the points accesories, there is an LED read out which also gives the number to the corresponding LED on the layout board, hard to explain with seeing it, I have been running the system with no problems what so ever granted on a rolling road with taped conections not the idea set up but it still keeps working. my original post was asking if anyone knew how far the system went I already know you were able to connect to a pc through an interface I just wanted to know how and what other items would have been available or anything that had been writen. there is noway it could be compared to modern DCC and have no idea why people are trying to do this, it would be like comparing a candle to a microwave oven, and indeed if the zero 1 at any point becomes unreliable then I will revert back to my H&M 4000 system, untill then I am experimenting in nostalgia, I would like to see this system work as it was meant to, not go out and replaice all f my system with hundreds of pounds of equiptment that I will probably never get the full use of. where as i'm sure the DCC system is the dogs dangly bits it has nothing to do with what I'm trying to achieve. if I thought it was going to get this much off subject I would never have asked for help in the first place.
Regards
Steve

 

QUOTE Unfortunatly this wasn't really the case when Zero 1 was pretty new. Standards were way too lax (or non existant), with all the small computer makers largely making it up as they went along.

Keith best let this one go, I had an olivettie dot matrix office printer connected to a 464 and it worked perfectly well as would most printers, ad of course later development would have made a differenence as it does with everthing in the computer world, remember even google is not perfect and makes mistakes. sorry I ever posted asking for help on this I just thought a model railway forum was the best place to ask about model railways, seems I was wrong I won't be asking for help again
regards to all and sorry if it has offended anyone but your not helping newcommers to model railways
regards
Steve

 

Hi

Sorry if you have taken offence in anything I have written. I am in no way having a go at you, just interested in the subject, and also interested in computers having been beating my head against them for too many years.

I suspect if I was in your situation with a large pile of Zero 1 equipment I would do the same as you and play. Not sure I would want to try installing any of the "decoders" in anything special (at least not until I was very sure I was happy with the equipment). But it is part of the fun, whether than is with models, or anything else that interests you.

All the best

Keith

 

Steve,

I don't see any reason why you not continue with your Zero1. You seem to have a good amount of equipment & it seems that it does what you want it to do. I'm a very enthusiastic DCC user but would be the first to admit that it does not suit everyone.

Personally I like to see some of the older technologies in use, such as Zero1, Hornby Dublo & even clockwork.

There still seems to be a fair amount of Zero1 kit about & judging by the prices we get for the odd used kit that comes our way it's still in demand.

Please don't be put off, just because the information you sought was not forthcoming & you recieved negaive comment on what you are doing.

 

Hi Brian
thanks for the comment, its a little off putting when you ask for info on somthing and end up getting lessons in sothing that is nothing to do with what you;ve asked about, I suppose I didn't realy expect 2 much info to comeback as I keep drawing a blank as to h0w far the system went I have it wired upto phase 3 which is the micromimic system LED's and displays ect but it goes a stage further or even 2 stages further, there is an i/opost in the top of the box and a socket for a light pen, that together with an article I read from magazine of the time think it was called "your model railway" it didn't take much thought toworkout that it was being designed to connect to a pc, My original question was as to if Hornby actually went that far with it and are the parts available, also there is a socket on the back which says rail drive I was wondering what that was for, these are the only questions I asked, nothing about which PC or what was the best system, I run Tri-ang and Tri-ang hornby I do have a few modern locos but not many, the Zero 1 is connected tohorby's rolling road which needs a good clean now the loco module is only taped in, the point motors areonly plugged into the module not to the point, the micro mimic is wired up and working and it hasn't missed a beat for days the only thing i've done is change the direction and the enertia it just keeps going I would just like to take it as far as it was intended to go but am missing the relevent information. Seems the only information Ican get is second hand frompeoplewhohave heard rumours or read articles but have never used the system them selves and as we all know the British are very good at bad publicity, it would be nice to hear frompeople whohave used the system and found it as reliable as I have.
It sounds as if you run a model railway shop and do get second hand Zero 1 items, have you come across the micromimic system or even better do you have any in stock I am missing the LED display panel not a great loss as its only a honnycomed plastic box with holes also somespare phase 3 modules would be usefull.
oonce again thanks for the comment,
reagrds Steve